Don't Ban Religious Teaching, Teach Reason


Ed Hudgins

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October 2, 2014 -- Recently Zoltan Istvan, author of the provocative book The Transhumanist Wager, called for “regulation that restricts religious indoctrination of children until they reach, let's say, 16 years of age.”

He presents us with horrific visions of indoctrination: “Religious child soldiers carrying AK-47s. Bullying anti-gay Jesus kids. Infant genital mutilation. Teenage suicide bombers. Child Hindu brides.” He also argues that young children are extremely susceptible to the teachings of their parents. But this is obvious! The rational capacity develops in humans over time and young ones only survive to adulthood because they are guided by adults.

Unfortunately, Istvan’s proposal for dealing with the irrationality to which humans are prone would, in fact, undermine his goal of creating a rational culture.

Degrees of abuse

In the first place, the Constitution does not grant government the power to restrict what religious doctrines parents teach their children; indeed, the First Amendment prohibits laws interfering with the free exercise of religion. It is true that “free exercise” does not allow parents to abuse children in certain ways—raping, starving, torturing them—whether in the name of religion or not.

But filling a child’s head with tales of virgin births, multi-armed goddesses, or prophets flying to an invisible place called “heaven” on a winged horse is a long way from breaking a child’s bones with a baseball bat or strapping explosives to a child in order to blow up infidel children.

Degrees of indoctrination

Let’s grant that religious teaching could confuse children, hamper the development of their thinking skills, or even inflict psychological damage. Still, there are different degrees of teaching or “indoctrination.”

It is reasonable for government to require parents to provide some level of general education for their children. And in America, Christians generally raise their children with reasonable, secularly defensible values in addition to the religious theology with which Istvan takes issue. Such parents generally want their children taught reading, writing, and math. They want them to learn history. And they want them to learn about the sciences that have created our current, advanced industrial society, though granted, too many have a bizarre aversion to accepting the truth of evolution, even though they accept the science concerning, for example, the heliocentric understanding of the solar system.

Degrees of repression

Further, Istvan’s suggestion would require the government to take on totalitarian powers. Would government agents be stationed at the doors of every church, synagogue, and mosque to check IDs and chase away anyone under sixteen? Would listening devices and 1984-style view screens be placed in every home and monitored 24/7 to make sure parents aren’t reading their children Bible stories? Would setting up a Christmas tree or nativity scene in one’s own home be considered “indoctrination?”

Furthermore, what about Eastern religions, which are more ways of life than theologies? Would teaching one’s children mediation as such be a crime or would it be legal as long as one never stated “The Buddha taught…” as an historical fact?

Philosopher-king fallacy

In a country in which 85 percent of people profess religious belief, is it plausible that legislators would ever pass a ban on religious education of children? And where would the government find the army of snoops to monitor their fellows to make sure they’re not corrupting the youth? Finally, does Istvan imagine that he or someone of like mind would be made the anti-indoctrination czar, the philosopher-king?

In recent years local child protective service officers have increasingly been arresting parents for alleged child abuse. Their crimes? Engaging in practices considered perfectly innocent in decades past, for example, letting a nine-year old play in a public park alone without a parent. (What has changed so radically since I was that age and played safely in my neighborhood with my friends?) But the kind of ban that Istvan suggests, combined with stupid government bureaucrats and busy-body neighbors, would multiply such abuses a thousand-fold.

A vision of rational values

One can understand Istvan’s frustration with the irrationality that plagues our world. But he also must appreciate that suggesting a ban on religious indoctrination of children ignores the dangers of an all-powerful government, dangers that Istvan otherwise seems to appreciate.

Further, his recommendation comes off as so ill-conceived that it paints transhumanists as dangerously detached from reality and, thus, dangerous if they ever get political power in their hands. One doesn’t promote the virtue of rationality by countering irrationality with proposals that, given a moment’s thought, can easily be rejected.

Those who want humans to live longer lives with enhanced capacities need to focus their creative efforts not only on the science and technology necessary to transform humans physically. They must also actively and intelligently promote a flourishing life as the goal for each individual, with reason as life’s guide and productive achievement as life’s purpose. And they must not employ the fear of government guns as motivation to abandon questionable or false beliefs. Rather, they should offer the shining vision of human life as it can be and should be as the compelling reason to strive for a better self and a better world.
---
Hudgins is director of advocacy and a senior scholar at The Atlas Society.

For further information:

*Edward Hudgins, Transhumanism vs. a Conservative Death Ethos. August 20, 2012.

*Edward Hudgins, “Book Review: Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think, by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler.” ISkeptic, April 24, 2013.

*William Thomas, Transhumanism: How Does it Relate to Objectivism?

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This essay strikes a chord with me as an Objectivish parent who has chosen to send her child to a Catholic private school in order to avoid the poor quality of public education. Religion is part of my son's curriculum, and I made a thoughtful and purposeful decision to expose him to that. I anticipated it being a chore to deal with, but actually, the daily practice of questioning and exercising reason while studying the Catholic faith, has, I believe, made my son even more rational than if I had not exposed him to religion at all. The outcome so far seems like a happy accident.

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This essay strikes a chord with me as an Objectivish parent who has chosen to send her child to a Catholic private school in order to avoid the poor quality of public education. Religion is part of my son's curriculum, and I made a thoughtful and purposeful decision to expose him to that. I anticipated it being a chore to deal with, but actually, the daily practice of questioning and exercising reason while studying the Catholic faith, has, I believe, made my son even more rational than if I had not exposed him to religion at all. The outcome so far seems like a happy accident.

Jesuits Deanna?

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This essay strikes a chord with me as an Objectivish parent who has chosen to send her child to a Catholic private school in order to avoid the poor quality of public education. Religion is part of my son's curriculum, and I made a thoughtful and purposeful decision to expose him to that. I anticipated it being a chore to deal with, but actually, the daily practice of questioning and exercising reason while studying the Catholic faith, has, I believe, made my son even more rational than if I had not exposed him to religion at all. The outcome so far seems like a happy accident.

I had the Filipino/ Dominican order of nuns in my Catholic grade school (8 yrs worth) & the Christian Bros. for my 1 yr at their H.S. I wanted out ( it took heavy convincing of my parents) & finished H.S. at a public school where I was able to take classes I actually was interested in....wood, metal & electrical shop, textiles & non-textiles etc. Screw the 10 commandments, the New Testament, Latin, Sunday attendance at mass, confession, communion, confirmation, the rosary, the occasional painful hits across the knuckles with the ruler & the constant pleas to raise money for them via raffle ticket sales. Amen, amen.

-J

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-J

the 10 commandments, the New Testament, Latin, Sunday attendance at mass, confession, communion, confirmation, the rosary, the occasional painful hits across the knuckles with the ruler & the constant pleas to raise money for them via raffle ticket sales. Amen, amen.

Hey, be happy you got out before the Last Rites Sacrament!

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-J

the 10 commandments, the New Testament, Latin, Sunday attendance at mass, confession, communion, confirmation, the rosary, the occasional painful hits across the knuckles with the ruler & the constant pleas to raise money for them via raffle ticket sales. Amen, amen.

Hey, be happy you got out before the Last Rites Sacrament!

lol. I forgot to mention some Brothers at the H.S. would turn their college rings around, stone facing inward, and repeatedly slap the head of their target.

First Blood.

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"...Teach Reason"

Platitudes makes us all feel warm and fuzzy, Ed, but they're of little practical use. I don't see him committing any "philosopher king fallacy", but I wouldn't endorse any of his ideas unless the child's welfare is as stake.

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Platitudes makes us all feel warm and fuzzy, Ed, but they're of little practical use.

Samson,

I strongly disagree with this. Platitudes have always been of great practical use. In fact, that's the purpose of them.

If you want to get technical, read Kahneman (say, Thinking Fast and Slow). Platitudes fall squarely within System 1 thinking, which purpose is to be practical.

But then, looking down one's nose at what one deems to be the stupid thinking of the masses tends to make one feel all warm and fuzzy, so the error can be explained that way.

:)

Michael

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Ed,

I got a copy of Istvan's book because of all the kerfuffle over it in the O-Land forums and blogs, but I have not read it yet.

Had I known that indoctrination of children through mind-control in the name of protecting children from mind-control was part of it, I probably would not have bought it.

I am not a fan of utopian thinking, which is based on the premise that the human species is perfectible, because it always leads to totalitarianism. Always.

Utopian thinkers want to be the ones perfecting others. They never accept the role that they themselves need to be perfected by others. I wonder why, I wonder... :)

The name of their game is power, not freedom.

Michael

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This is an official notice to Sampson that I am not an Internet troll ...

1o9OH.gif

Mark Levin carefully lays the Utopian scheme out so that whomsoever is scripting the Utopia, Plato, Muhammad, Thomas Moore, Hobbes, Bentham, Marx, Hitler, Stalin, Clinton, O'bama, Elizabeth Warren, etc. it ends in brutal tyrannies.

American Spectator commented on Ameritopia:

When I came across the line that "Utopia misapprehends man's nature," I had to stop reading and make a note to self. I do this with any brilliantly succinct and accurate notion. This line was so good that I wish I had written it myself. I had not.

Mark Levin wrote that and many other such nuggets -- and wove them into a tightly coherent narrative on where and why America is today. It's entitled Ameritopia: The Unmaking of America, published today. Like his Liberty and Tyranny three years ago, this book should defy publishing gravity and demonstrate that Americans are indeed interested in intellectual history -- as long as the author can make it compelling and demonstrate relevance.

Levin does both.

Before reading the book, I assumed that Mark would show us where we are headed as a nation. I was wrong. Instead he shows us where we already are and why we are there. The style is conversational -- like the style of that one history professor you might have known who really made history fun. But do not be fooled. The research underlying the conversation is comprehensive, and the easy flow is infused throughout with simple profundities.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/01/ameritopia_mark_levin_connects_the_dot.html#ixzz3FDSGCHvX
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

Hmm I guess some folks think he has something important to say.

A...

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This is an official notice to Sampson that I am not an Internet troll ...

1o9OH.gif

Mark Levin carefully lays the Utopian scheme out so that whomsoever is scripting the Utopia, Plato, Muhammad, Thomas Moore, Hobbes, Bentham, Marx, Hitler, Stalin, Clinton, O'bama, Elizabeth Warren, etc. it ends in brutal tyrannies.

American Spectator commented on Ameritopia:

When I came across the line that "Utopia misapprehends man's nature," I had to stop reading and make a note to self. I do this with any brilliantly succinct and accurate notion. This line was so good that I wish I had written it myself. I had not.

Mark Levin wrote that and many other such nuggets -- and wove them into a tightly coherent narrative on where and why America is today. It's entitled Ameritopia: The Unmaking of America, published today. Like his Liberty and Tyranny three years ago, this book should defy publishing gravity and demonstrate that Americans are indeed interested in intellectual history -- as long as the author can make it compelling and demonstrate relevance.

Levin does both.

Before reading the book, I assumed that Mark would show us where we are headed as a nation. I was wrong. Instead he shows us where we already are and why we are there. The style is conversational -- like the style of that one history professor you might have known who really made history fun. But do not be fooled. The research underlying the conversation is comprehensive, and the easy flow is infused throughout with simple profundities.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/01/ameritopia_mark_levin_connects_the_dot.html#ixzz3FDSGCHvX

Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

Hmm I guess some folks think he has something important to say.

A...

I like Mark. Got thru to his radio show once to pose a question.

For the most part, he brings a lot to the table that makes sense...in no uncertain terms.

I'd like to see him on t.v., more often...reach more people.

-J

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Hmm I guess some folks think he has something important to say.

A...

I like Mark. Got thru to his radio show once to pose a question.

For the most part, he brings a lot to the table that makes sense...in no uncertain terms.

I'd like to see him on t.v., more often...reach more people.

-J

If you haven't listened to his 3 hr interview on C-Span, it is worth hearing.

He is able to explain his points calmly, speak about his love for his family.

Moreover, his caring about humanity and animals is quite moving.

http://therightscoop.com/watch-mark-levins-interview-from-today-on-c-spans-book-tv/

A...

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Hmm I guess some folks think he has something important to say.

A...

I like Mark. Got thru to his radio show once to pose a question.

For the most part, he brings a lot to the table that makes sense...in no uncertain terms.

I'd like to see him on t.v., more often...reach more people.

-J

If you haven't listened to his 3 hr interview on C-Span, it is worth hearing.

He is able to explain his points calmly, speak about his love for his family.

Moreover, his caring about humanity and animals is quite moving.

http://therightscoop.com/watch-mark-levins-interview-from-today-on-c-spans-book-tv/

A...

I've read Rescuing Sprite, which was quite moving, especially since Ive had several dogs throughout my life & Ameritopia, which should be required reading for the Congress & college students. From time to time I tune in to his radio show.

I'll be checking out the CNN interview...thanks for the heads up.

-J

P.S. Do or die for the Angels tonight. Hamilton suks. $17 mil a yr, 0-9 post season. Trout hasn't produced either.

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Hmm I guess some folks think he has something important to say.

A...

I like Mark. Got thru to his radio show once to pose a question.

For the most part, he brings a lot to the table that makes sense...in no uncertain terms.

I'd like to see him on t.v., more often...reach more people.

-J

If you haven't listened to his 3 hr interview on C-Span, it is worth hearing.

He is able to explain his points calmly, speak about his love for his family.

Moreover, his caring about humanity and animals is quite moving.

http://therightscoop.com/watch-mark-levins-interview-from-today-on-c-spans-book-tv/

A...

I've read Rescuing Sprite, which was quite moving, especially since Ive had several dogs throughout my life & Ameritopia, which should be required reading for the Congress & college students. From time to time I tune in to his radio show.

I'll be checking out the CNN interview...thanks for the heads up.

-J

P.S. Do or die for the Angels tonight. Hamilton suks. $17 mil a yr, 0-9 post season. Trout hasn't produced either.

Yes, Sprite's personality was beautifully inspiring.

Mark is a gifted man, in that he can be tough as nails in the marketplace of ideas and be warm and humane personally.

He reminds me of one our first ten (10) members of F.A.M.I.L.Y., Advocates. We went to see him in jail, a holding cell.

He was an Honor Guard Marine and he was siting in the corner, head in hands, sobbing.

His ex-wife had him arrested when he came to pick up his daughter.

It took us some time to prove that he was set up, however, he was extremely grateful that we gave him hope that day

as we arranged for his release.

Like that Marine, he is the kind of person I want on my team, in my foxhole and in my community.

It is C-SPAN, not CNN [Clinton News Network]. CNN would never give Mark, or that Marine, access to their microphones.

A...

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Hmm I guess some folks think he has something important to say.

A...

I like Mark. Got thru to his radio show once to pose a question.

For the most part, he brings a lot to the table that makes sense...in no uncertain terms.

I'd like to see him on t.v., more often...reach more people.

-J

If you haven't listened to his 3 hr interview on C-Span, it is worth hearing.

He is able to explain his points calmly, speak about his love for his family.

Moreover, his caring about humanity and animals is quite moving.

http://therightscoop.com/watch-mark-levins-interview-from-today-on-c-spans-book-tv/

A...

I've read Rescuing Sprite, which was quite moving, especially since Ive had several dogs throughout my life & Ameritopia, which should be required reading for the Congress & college students. From time to time I tune in to his radio show.

I'll be checking out the CNN interview...thanks for the heads up.

-J

P.S. Do or die for the Angels tonight. Hamilton suks. $17 mil a yr, 0-9 post season. Trout hasn't produced either.

Yes, Sprite's personality was beautifully inspiring.

Mark is a gifted man, in that he can be tough as nails in the marketplace of ideas and be warm and humane personally.

He reminds me of one our first ten (10) members of F.A.M.I.L.Y., Advocates. We went to see him in jail, a holding cell.

He was an Honor Guard Marine and he was siting in the corner, head in hands, sobbing.

His ex-wife had him arrested when he came to pick up his daughter.

It took us some time to prove that he was set up, however, he was extremely grateful that we gave him hope that day

as we arranged for his release.

Like that Marine, he is the kind of person I want on my team, in my foxhole and in my community.

It is C-SPAN, not CNN [Clinton News Network]. CNN would never give Mark, or that Marine, access to their microphones.

A...

Ditto on that marine & Levin. I'd be happy to share some skunk juice with them, anytime.

Several months ago I heard Mark, in response to a listener call-in, referring to AR "When she was right, she was right on" He said it like he meant it.

-J

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Ditto on that marine & Levin. I'd be happy to share some skunk juice with them, anytime.

Several months ago I heard Mark, in response to a listener call-in, referring to AR "When she was right, she was right on" He said it like he meant it.

-J

I heard that show. Yes, he meant it.

I remember he said what I always say to folks about her first name and the two (2) ways it is pronounced.

He is very thorough as most excellent litigators are.

A...

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This essay strikes a chord with me as an Objectivish parent who has chosen to send her child to a Catholic private school in order to avoid the poor quality of public education. Religion is part of my son's curriculum, and I made a thoughtful and purposeful decision to expose him to that. I anticipated it being a chore to deal with, but actually, the daily practice of questioning and exercising reason while studying the Catholic faith, has, I believe, made my son even more rational than if I had not exposed him to religion at all. The outcome so far seems like a happy accident.

I had the Filipino/ Dominican order of nuns in my Catholic grade school (8 yrs worth) & the Christian Bros. for my 1 yr at their H.S. I wanted out ( it took heavy convincing of my parents) & finished H.S. at a public school where I was able to take classes I actually was interested in....wood, metal & electrical shop, textiles & non-textiles etc. Screw the 10 commandments, the New Testament, Latin, Sunday attendance at mass, confession, communion, confirmation, the rosary, the occasional painful hits across the knuckles with the ruler & the constant pleas to raise money for them via raffle ticket sales. Amen, amen.

-J

The plan right now is for my son to attend public high school as the one in our district is decent.

Neither my son nor I are Catholic, so he is not required (not allowed even) to participate in confession or communion. He has 1-2 hours of religious "instruction" including a short Friday morning mass each week and that's it. Teachers are not nuns or padres, and they do not dish out corporal punishment of any kind. There are two fundraisers per year. One is a 3-day fall fair and crafts festival. The students put on shows (secular in nature usually), and I'm required to volunteer for 2 hours at a game booth. The other is a fancy ball during Carnival season, and no participation in that is required although it is a fun adults' only event, so I enjoy it.

I think (hope) that my son's experience has, so far, been quite different from yours. My only experience with Catholicism has been in southeast Louisiana, but I suspect that it's a bit different here. Most things are in the home of Mardi Gras. :smile:

In any case, my goal has always been for my son to be exposed to lots of different concepts and ideas. He has attended Baptist church-based summer camps and non-denominational church services over the years. Rather than someone else (i.e. me) telling him what religion and faith ought to mean to him, I want him to come to that on his own, and he needs information and the ability to process that information in order to do so. If he embraces, rejects, or becomes indifferent... it will have been on his own terms. And he'll have received a solid academic education in the meantime.

ETA: Adam, not Jesuits. :-)

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...I'm required to volunteer for 2 hours at a game booth. The other is a fancy ball during Carnival season, and no participation in that is required although it is a fun adults' only event, so I enjoy it.

I think (hope) that my son's experience has, so far, been quite different from yours. My only experience with Catholicism has been in southeast Louisiana, but I suspect that it's a bit different here. Most things are in the home of Mardi Gras. :smile:

In any case, my goal has always been for my son to be exposed to lots of different concepts and ideas. He has attended Baptist church-based summer camps and non-denominational church services over the years. Rather than someone else (i.e. me) telling him what religion and faith ought to mean to him, I want him to come to that on his own, and he needs information and the ability to process that information in order to do so. If he embraces, rejects, or becomes indifferent... it will have been on his own terms. And he'll have received a solid academic education in the meantime.

Deanna, that is an excellent approach.

Good parenting, in my non-humble opinion, involves having the integrity to teach your child(ren) to think critically and to expose them to different paths of thinking.

The odds are they will opt for the ideas that better themselves.

Now, more importantly, where are the pictures you in your game booth?

A...

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This essay strikes a chord with me as an Objectivish parent who has chosen to send her child to a Catholic private school in order to avoid the poor quality of public education. Religion is part of my son's curriculum, and I made a thoughtful and purposeful decision to expose him to that. I anticipated it being a chore to deal with, but actually, the daily practice of questioning and exercising reason while studying the Catholic faith, has, I believe, made my son even more rational than if I had not exposed him to religion at all. The outcome so far seems like a happy accident.

I had the Filipino/ Dominican order of nuns in my Catholic grade school (8 yrs worth) & the Christian Bros. for my 1 yr at their H.S. I wanted out ( it took heavy convincing of my parents) & finished H.S. at a public school where I was able to take classes I actually was interested in....wood, metal & electrical shop, textiles & non-textiles etc. Screw the 10 commandments, the New Testament, Latin, Sunday attendance at mass, confession, communion, confirmation, the rosary, the occasional painful hits across the knuckles with the ruler & the constant pleas to raise money for them via raffle ticket sales. Amen, amen.

-J

The plan right now is for my son to attend public high school as the one in our district is decent.

Neither my son nor I are Catholic, so he is not required (not allowed even) to participate in confession or communion. He has 1-2 hours of religious "instruction" including a short Friday morning mass each week and that's it. Teachers are not nuns or padres, and they do not dish out corporal punishment of any kind. There are two fundraisers per year. One is a 3-day fall fair and crafts festival. The students put on shows (secular in nature usually), and I'm required to volunteer for 2 hours at a game booth. The other is a fancy ball during Carnival season, and no participation in that is required although it is a fun adults' only event, so I enjoy it.

I think (hope) that my son's experience has, so far, been quite different from yours. My only experience with Catholicism has been in southeast Louisiana, but I suspect that it's a bit different here. Most things are in the home of Mardi Gras. :smile:

In any case, my goal has always been for my son to be exposed to lots of different concepts and ideas. He has attended Baptist church-based summer camps and non-denominational church services over the years. Rather than someone else (i.e. me) telling him what religion and faith ought to mean to him, I want him to come to that on his own, and he needs information and the ability to process that information in order to do so. If he embraces, rejects, or becomes indifferent... it will have been on his own terms. And he'll have received a solid academic education in the meantime.

ETA: Adam, not Jesuits. :-)

Looks like your son is lucky to have you as his mom.

-J

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This essay strikes a chord with me as an Objectivish parent who has chosen to send her child to a Catholic private school in order to avoid the poor quality of public education. Religion is part of my son's curriculum, and I made a thoughtful and purposeful decision to expose him to that. I anticipated it being a chore to deal with, but actually, the daily practice of questioning and exercising reason while studying the Catholic faith, has, I believe, made my son even more rational than if I had not exposed him to religion at all. The outcome so far seems like a happy accident.

I sent my youngest son to a Catholic High School run by the Dominicans for pretty much the same reason. I had gotten word of mouth that teaching done mostly by lay personal (not priests or nuns) was first rate. I got a pledge from the school management that there would be no attempt to convert my Very Jewish son, Ari. There was a requirement that the students take a course in religion, but it was to study the theology of the church, not to carry out acts of worship. My son was quickly drafted by the teacher to provide back ground work for the class on the "Old Testament" (i.e. Jewish scriptures) Since my son attended a Jewish school which taught both the secular subjects as well as Jewish religion he was well suited for the task.

He did fine. He got excellent 10,11 and 12 th grade schooling and no grief whatsoever from the Catholic school. It worked out quite well.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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