Judge Rules Living Off the Grid illegal

[Southern Capitalist]

In Florida a judge ruled living off the grid illegal. It was fine until she went public, then the state said she HAD to sign up for their water service. This concerns me due to the survival niche is one of my hobbies. If this continues its the Feds telling you that you have to use their services. (Besides what we already have to use).

Source: www.exposingthetruth.com

[jts]

It's all perfectly logical. Illegal to live off the grid. Illegal to grow a garden in your front yard. Illegal to collect rain water on your own property. Illegal to grow a useful plant. Illegal to run a business without government permission. What the hell country do you think you are living in? America?

After some period of slave training, you will be accustomed to being a slave and it will be the normal thing. Little by little they will train you to be a docile good nonrebellious slave. You are being conditioned to accept Agenda 21, the agenda for the 21st century. This will ultimately result in a combination of totalitarianism and environmentalism, both on steroids. But by that time you will accept it as the normal thing and you will look upon all those opposed as bad.

You can't escape from Agenda 21. You will not be permitted to own land. There will be no place to hide where you can live. There is still time to fight it. But no matter. By the time it is fully implemented, you will be fully adjusted to being a happy docile slave. To help your adjustment, government has benevolently provided fluoride in your drinking water and psychiatric drugs.

[Peter]

I will play the devil’s advocate. So, you want to live off the grid? But you are affecting other property owners! I would say that air pollution from a camp fire or a water barrel which allows a breeding ground for mosquitoes to exist on your property are two infringements of individual rights, and Rand acknowledges that the condition could be collective, as when people live in close proximity. So, *objective* laws can be written binding all citizens to its ruling, and this is not force but a concept called *precedent.*

There are thousands of real estate precedents, involving access to water, a view of the water or mountains or other landmarks. Riparian or waterfront laws are abundant in every state. The declaration that “a person may do as they like on their property as long as they do not violate the rights of others” is an oversimplification. No you can’t. And knowledgeable people are aware of this fact.

Ayn Rand said that Objectivism is contextual. It changes. It’s politics gives us the framework of a government. We no longer live on “The Frontier.” Clearly, for Ayn Rand the U.S. Constitution is a less than perfect *example* of her philosophy “fleshed out.” Ms Rand thought that the U.S. had the best Constitution available and The United States was the best country for leading a life of freedom that she knew of. And the county sheriff does not want to be called out to find a suspicious looking vagrant or to chase off bears from your overgrown property.

Peter

In her article, "The Left: Old and New" in The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution, [p. 89] Ayn Rand wrote:

In regard to the political principle involved: if a man creates a physical danger or harm to others, which extends beyond the line of his own property, such as unsanitary conditions or even loud noise, and if this is *proved*, the law can and does hold him responsible. If the condition is collective, such as in an overcrowded city, appropriate and *objective* laws can be defined, protecting the rights of all those involved -- as was done in the case of oil rights, air-space rights, etc."

end quote

[moralist]

In Florida a judge ruled living off the grid illegal. It was fine until she went public...

So what's the lesson?

Don't go public!

If you don't stick your head in their noose they can't hang you.

But since she did, why not sign up for water service and simply don't turn on your tap. Problem solved!

Greg

[Selene]

If the condition is collective, such as in an overcrowded city, appropriate and *objective* laws can be defined, protecting the rights of all those involved -- as was done in the case of oil rights, air-space rights, etc."

This is the essence of originalist law theory.

A law, to be understood by "the people," shall be clear and simply written.

The centralized administrative state has moved diametrically away from that premise.

If my memory serves me, Wolf DeVoon (? sp) did some phenomenal work in this area and was a member of this forum when I first joined.

A...

Remember, the Constitution of the United States is 4,400 words ... a remarkable document.

[moralist]

If the condition is collective, such as in an overcrowded city, appropriate and *objective* laws can be defined, protecting the rights of all those involved -- as was done in the case of oil rights, air-space rights, etc."

This is the essence of originalist law theory.

A law, to be understood by "the people," shall be clear and simply written.

The centralized administrative state has moved diametrically away from that premise.

And since the power to alter the "centralized administrative state" does not rest in any individual's hands because government as it exists today is nothing more than the creation of tens of millions of failures who can't even properly govern their own lives...

...the best approach is to adapt in creative ways so as to be able to enjoy your life in this world just as it is.

Greg

[Selene]

If the condition is collective, such as in an overcrowded city, appropriate and *objective* laws can be defined, protecting the rights of all those involved -- as was done in the case of oil rights, air-space rights, etc."

This is the essence of originalist law theory.

A law, to be understood by "the people," shall be clear and simply written.

The centralized administrative state has moved diametrically away from that premise.

And since the power to alter the "centralized administrative state" does not rest in any individual's hands because government as it exists today is nothing more than the creation of tens of millions of failures who can't even properly govern their own lives...

...the best approach is to adapt in creative ways so as to be able to enjoy your life in this world just as it is.

Greg

Yes, that is certainly one option which is rational, efficient and safe.

If I were young and raising a family, that would be a smart path.

In essence, you are on a "public work slowdown," rather than a full Atlas Shrugged striker.

Not shrugging.

However, smart enough to duck though.

A...

[moralist]

If the condition is collective, such as in an overcrowded city, appropriate and *objective* laws can be defined, protecting the rights of all those involved -- as was done in the case of oil rights, air-space rights, etc."

This is the essence of originalist law theory.

A law, to be understood by "the people," shall be clear and simply written.

The centralized administrative state has moved diametrically away from that premise.

And since the power to alter the "centralized administrative state" does not rest in any individual's hands because government as it exists today is nothing more than the creation of tens of millions of failures who can't even properly govern their own lives...

...the best approach is to adapt in creative ways so as to be able to enjoy your life in this world just as it is.

Greg

Yes, that is certainly one option which is rational, efficient and safe.

God grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;

Enjoying one moment at a time;

Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;

Taking, as He did, this sinful world

as it is, not as I would have it;

Trusting that He will make all things right

if I surrender to His Will;

That I may be reasonably happy in this life

and supremely happy with Him

Forever in the next.

Amen.

--Reinhold Niebuhr

If I were young and raising a family, that would be a smart path.

Heck, it even works for old folks too.

In essence, you are on a "public work slowdown," rather than a full Atlas Shrugged striker.

I'm on full strike as far as the government, debt, law, education, credit, healthcare, insurance, and union sectors are concerned.

Not shrugging.

That's right. I'm still a fully active producer in the American Capitalist free market.

However, smart enough to duck though.

A...

They taught me in the Army that it's impossible to duck a bullet like they do in the movies because you're already hit before you even hear the shot fired...

...but I know what you mean.

Greg

[william.scherk]

In Florida a judge ruled living off the grid illegal. It was fine until she went public, then the state said she HAD to sign up for their water service. This concerns me due to the survival niche is one of my hobbies. If this continues its the Feds telling you that you have to use their services. (Besides what we already have to use).

Source: www.exposingthetruth.com

Details from a February Yahoo article:

The fight of Cape Coral, Florida resident Robin Speronis to live “off the grid” has escalated with the city’s recent decision to cap her access to the sewer so she can no longer use it. It’s a move she calls, “pure evil.”

Since November 2013, WFTX Fox 4 has reported on Ms. Speronis’ ongoing battle with the city to live without most utilities. The self-sufficient woman has lived for more than a year-and-a-half using solar energy, a propane camping stove, rain water, and eating mainly non-perishable food. However, the day after the station’s first profile of her lifestyle Speronis’ home was tagged by the city code enforcement with a notice to vacate.

The story of her plight spread and many rallied around Speronis’ cause sending Cape Coral officials complaints in support of the woman. WFTX reported that the city clarified that, “…municipalities don’t have the power to evict,” and that the notice was placed because they, “…merely [wanted] access to the home to provide suggestion so Speronis can live off the grid in Cape Coral.” After that incident, Speronis told the station, “Cape Coral needs to be afraid of me, I’m not afraid of them.”

In January attorney Todd Allen, who agreed to represent Speronis pro-bono, was served with a five-page amended violation notice that cited international property maintenance code and city ordinances. Allen said that the two sets of codes are not clear, "What is a private water system? That's not defined in either code. But if one code accepts it, then they shouldn’t, the other shouldn't negate the ability to have one."

Last week, Speronis appeared before Special Magistrate Harold S. Eskin and was found not guilty of violating city codes requiring a proper electrical and sewer system. Though, Speronis was found guilty of violating a code requiring an approved water supply. Eskin ordered that she hook-up to the cityutilities. In response Speronis told WFTX and The News-Press, “That doesn’t make common sense. So why would I do that? Why would I hook, hook up to the city water and then not use it?”

Also discussed at the special hearing was the fact that Speronis had been using the sewer system for the past year yet not paying for the service amassing a past due bill in the thousands. After her testimony admitting that she had used the service without paying for it, the city decided to cap the sewer line. Connie Barron, Cape Coral spokesperson told The News-Press, “She also gave clear indications she does not intend to pay for this service but intends to continue to use the system. We really had no choice but to cap the sewer.”

Speronis’ time living on the grid hasn’t gone so well for her either. As reported by the Cape Coral Daily Breeze , in June 2011, she plead no content to larceny, and was sentenced to 10 years of state probation and ordered to pay $32,000 in restitution. In January 2012, she had her real estate license revoked following a second complaint that she had not returned a $3,500 deposit following a failed condo sale.

[...]

When I thought of 'off-the-grid' lady in Florida, I imagined her and a semi-rural plot of land, not a duplex. The rest of the story just makes me feel sorry for her. That she sluiced out her toilets and drained her sinks into the the town's sewer works against her case. She should do an Indigogo crowdfunder to buy herself a place further away from those meddling humans.

[moralist]

Also discussed at the special hearing was the fact that Speronis had been using the sewer system for the past year yet not paying for the service amassing a past due bill in the thousands. After her testimony admitting that she had used the service without paying for it, the city decided to cap the sewer line. Connie Barron, Cape Coral spokesperson told The News-Press, “She also gave clear indications she does not intend to pay for this service but intends to continue to use the system. We really had no choice but to cap the sewer.”

That's a poorly thought out strategy to use a public service without paying for it. She stuck her own neck into their noose. It's important to pick battles that you can actually win. We had a stand alone septic system installed on our land. We never have to pay any government fees.

Greg

[Peter]

I live in the country, and it is easier than a city dweller might think. I have a septic tank and a water pump. Water pump technology has improved so that I never need to prime the pump. I have a back up generator. I do occasionally live off the grid when the power goes out, and the last time was just a couple of months ago, when much of the Ocean City, Maryland area on Delmarva Power went dark, but the people on Choptank Electric, across the river from me, had power. That ticked me off. If solar energy ever does improve I might try that if it is not too expensive.