Islam is the Most Violent Religion in the World, But Let’s Keep Calling it ‘Peaceful’ Anyway - This is a must read...

[Selene]

And when Muslim terrorists get a hold of nukes, what shall we do?

Factually, we did win the nuclear war ever fought.

[Brant Gaede]

And when Muslim terrorists get a hold of nukes, what shall we do?

Factually, we did win the nuclear war ever fought.

Since the other side had and used no nukes it was not a nuclear war, just a war in which one side used them to end a war. This may be splitting hairs but it gives geo-politics a clean rhetorical slate for clear thinking about the present and the possible future use of these weapons. If Iran were to drop one on Israel and Israel were to then use its nukes to obliterate Iran, that would be nuclear war. The idea is to avoid any first strike scenario with these weapons to keep the genie in the bottle as long as possible. That may be good and it may be bad but that choice has been made and is sitting on the table. So we split hairs to help maintain this strategic status quo--and by discouraging proliferation.

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

And when Muslim terrorists get a hold of nukes, what shall we do?

Factually, we did win the nuclear war ever fought.

Not quite. The Japanese did not throw in the sponge until the Russians abrogated their non-aggression pact with Japan on Aug. 8 and began to attack the Japanese army in Manchuria. At that point being nuked AND invaded by Russia seemed a pretty bad idea and Hirohito tossed in the towel.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Not quite. The Japanese did not throw in the sponge until the Russians abrogated their non-aggression pact with Japan on Aug. 8 and began to attack the Japanese army in Manchuria. At that point being nuked AND invaded by Russia seemed a pretty bad idea and Hirohito tossed in the towel.

Ba'al Chatzaf

We all have to be careful of the "after this, therefore because of this" specific event fallacy.

[Selene]

Damn!! I love this guy...can we trade for him straight up for Mayor DeCommio and whoever is screwing up Newark to keep the Booker disaster moving forward?

'It is incomprehensible that you can turn against freedom,' Mayor Aboutaleb told Dutch current affairs program Nieuwsuur (Newshour).

'But if you don't like freedom, for heaven's sake pack your bags and leave.

'If you do not like it here because some humorists you don't like are making a newspaper, may I then say you can fuck off!'

This is stupid, this so incomprehensible. Vanish from the Netherlands if you cannot find your place here. All those well-meaning Muslims here will now be stared at'.
'My hero': London Mayor Boris Johnson said Aboutaleb was 'straight to the point'

Mayor Aboutaleb grew up the son of an imam in northern Morocco, but moved to the Netherlands in 1976.

After working as a reporter he became a civil servant before being appointed State Secretary for Social Affairs and Employment in 2007.

When he was appointed mayor of Rotterdam, the second largest city in the country with a population of more than 610,000, he became the first immigrant in such a position in the Netherlands.

Mayor Aboutaleb, who represents the Dutch Labour Party, de Partij van de Arbeid, has long had a no-nonsense approach to immigration and integration.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2907941/Moroccan-born-mayor-Rotterdam-tells-fellow-Muslims-not-appreciate-freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html

[Jules Troy]

I kind of like Japan's method of dealing with Islam.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/japan-the-land-without-muslims/comment-page-3/

That is the most rational approach I have seen yet..

[Francisco Ferrer]

I kind of like Japan's method of dealing with Islam.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/japan-the-land-without-muslims/comment-page-3/

That is the most rational approach I have seen yet..

From the linked article:

It is very difficult to import books of the Qur’an to Japan.

Book banning! A venerable tradition in the greatest, noblest nation on earth.

[Jules Troy]

Only one book...like I said THEY don't have a problem with Islamic radicals. They did the SMART thing seeing as it is hard to separate the good from the bad apples they said to hell with all of them. By NOT allowing them to take root in the FIRST place they unlike us do not have to deal with it from a "oh shit how are we ever going to clean up THIS mess." They avoided the mess all together. Do you SEE Islamic anyone crying and complaining about the Japanese valuing their OWN culture over anyone else's? No. If I as a westerner want to go to Japan and want to be treated with respect I bloody well learn Japanese and at the very least if I do not practice their culture I respect it and do my best to make an attempt to fit in. I certainly do not go brandishing a Quran and try and shove Islam down the Japanese throats.

We in the west have our own culture as well. Even if it is baseball games and the American way. It is not baseball and let's watch a beheading of infidels on Friday morning.

Honestly Francisco you can be such a fucking twit sometimes. (Most of the time really.)

MSK hit it on the head. Separation of state from religion. The Japanese are about the only success story on the entire planet when it comes to Islam. The west is too PC to do the right thing.

Everyone is all happy that 40+leaders joined arm in arm over the Paris attack. Over 100k Jews have fled for their lives. They advised BIbi NOt to show up but he reluctantly did because two ministers with more balls than him where going regardless. The French advised him not to show up. Why? Because they were afraid him showing up would insult a bunch of muslims. How the fuck is that dealing with the problem? They murdered Jews and throw rocks at jewish businesses and synagogues and instead of dealing with it they "are afraid of pissing them off more by showing some solidarity?".

The ONLY thing the French are good at is fucking surrendering.

PS: as far as books is concerned. Try buying the Anarchist's cookbook, the poor man's James Bond, To break the chains of a tyrant: Neo gorilla warfare tactics for the 90s, A Quran and go visit fisher scientific and see how long it takes for the NSA to show up at your door...

[Jjeorge]

...They didn't want Bibi to show up...Because it would insult Muslims?

Sweet jesus, these things are emotionally exhausting.

The only Muslims that should insult are the ones who are the problem anyways, so whoever 'advised' that can go to hell.

Also, if we should separate state from religion, why then is it ok to wed the state to "culture"? So long as the specific individuals involved harbor no desire to see Japan under the boot of Sharia law, they should be allowed to move there.

My step-mother and step-sister are both Muslim. I'd argue that their lack of such totalitarian desires is actually inconsistent with Islam, but the fact remains that their inconsistency makes them generally decent people. They are effectively no different than the millions (?) of Americans who call themselves Christian by default, but who simply try to be nice people, instead of all that other nonsense. There is zero reason that such people as they should not be allowed to live here. They are no threat to anyone--aside, perhaps, from the "threat" my step-mother poses to the apathetic teenagers with whom she works.

[Francisco Ferrer]

Only one book...like I said THEY don't have a problem with Islamic radicals. They did the SMART thing seeing as it is hard to separate the good from the bad apples they said to hell with all of them. By NOT allowing them to take root in the FIRST place they unlike us do not have to deal with it from a "oh shit how are we ever going to clean up THIS mess." They avoided the mess all together. Do you SEE Islamic anyone crying and complaining about the Japanese valuing their OWN culture over anyone else's? No. If I as a westerner want to go to Japan and want to be treated with respect I bloody well learn Japanese and at the very least if I do not practice their culture I respect it and do my best to make an attempt to fit in. I certainly do not go brandishing a Quran and try and shove Islam down the Japanese throats.

We in the west have our own culture as well. Even if it is baseball games and the American way. It is not baseball and let's watch a beheading of infidels on Friday morning.

Honestly Francisco you can be such a fucking twit sometimes. (Most of the time really.)

MSK hit it on the head. Separation of state from religion. The Japanese are about the only success story on the entire planet when it comes to Islam. The west is too PC to do the right thing.

Everyone is all happy that 40+leaders joined arm in arm over the Paris attack. Over 100k Jews have fled for their lives. They advised BIbi NOt to show up but he reluctantly did because two ministers with more balls than him where going regardless. The French advised him not to show up. Why? Because they were afraid him showing up would insult a bunch of muslims. How the fuck is that dealing with the problem? They murdered Jews and throw rocks at jewish businesses and synagogues and instead of dealing with it they "are afraid of pissing them off more by showing some solidarity?".

The ONLY thing the French are good at is fucking surrendering.

PS: as far as books is concerned. Try buying the Anarchist's cookbook, the poor man's James Bond, To break the chains of a tyrant: Neo gorilla warfare tactics for the 90s, A Quran and go visit fisher scientific and see how long it takes for the NSA to show up at your door...

Yes, perhaps we should say that the principle of freedom to distribute books cannot have been seriously violated if there is only one instance of it not being upheld. And at some later point could it not be argued that one may be too few; that 20, 50, 100, or 1,000 books is a "reasonable," "moderate" limit for society? After all, as someone said--wasn't it Ayn Rand?--"We face a choice between a society where people accept modest sacrifices for a common good or a more contentious society where groups selfishly protect their own benefits."

And when it comes to making "modest sacrifices," I always make sure my elected representatives put someone else in line before me.

The logic is simple, elegant and relentless.

1. You cannot buy certain books in the U.S. without attracting the attention of the NSA.

2. The U.S. is a free country, right?

3. Therefore Quran-banning Japan must be a free country too!

[Brant Gaede]

What makes Japan strong also makes it weak as it's being eaten alive by its own demographics and insularity. And the weak US that beat it to a pulp in WWII with its left hand while beating up Germany with its right is still sucking in immigrants, illegal or not. You can come to America and become an American, which is mostly a state of mind. Even if you could immigrate to Japan you'd never become Japanese, which is all race and culture, practically family.

In the US you can import, read, even print the Koran. You can also use it for toilet paper or to line kitty's box.

This century may be as much the American century as the previous one. Or maybe China except China is coming up with its own demographic problem. Japan? While never in any sort of contention for top dog it's gonna be gone as it's turning into a gigantic old folks' home.

--Brant

[Jules Troy]

Say what you want FF Japan does not have a muslim extremist problem. We do. Unless 911, boston bombings etc and the clamping down of liberty via homeland security is not a problem? So far the US "cure" is worse than the disease.

[Selene]

Say what you want FF Japan does not have a muslim extremist problem. We do. Unless 911, boston bombings etc and the clamping down of liberty via homeland security is not a problem? So far the US "cure" is worse than the disease.

Correct.

Apparently, Mr. Negativity can never find a path to positive comments.

A...

[Jules Troy]

Say what you want FF Japan does not have a muslim extremist problem. We do. Unless 911, boston bombings etc and the clamping down of liberty via homeland security is not a problem? So far the US "cure" is worse than the disease.

Correct.

Apparently, Mr. Negativity can never find a path to positive comments.

A...

[Jules Troy]

Adam he is worse than my ex-wife's mother! Lol ok maybe not that bad she is the spawn of satan.

[Brant Gaede]

FF's negativity is merely the marble chips falling away to reveal a great and beautiful statue.

--Brant

speaking from personal experience (it happened to me; it can happen to you, too!)

[Selene]

Adam he is worse than my ex-wife's mother! Lol ok maybe not that bad she is the spawn of satan.

Understood.

I have always suggested that a man should meet the potential significant other's mother.

Then, after spending an evening with her, ask yourself if you could be perfectly comfortable with that person because much of your your current love is being presented to you.

I would assume that would be the same advice for a woman.

Not sure who to suggest as the model for a homesexual couple. or, transgender couple, etc.

A...

[william.scherk]

I kind of like Japan's method of dealing with Islam.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/japan-the-land-without-muslims/comment-page-3/

That is the most rational approach I have seen yet..

So, who has taken a critical, skeptical look at the claims made at The Muslim Issue blog?** So far, it looks like everyone posting -- except perhaps Mr Negativity -- accepts as more or less accurate the particular claims posted there. (for those who are on the fence and silent -- a site called Japanese Muslims provides some strong evidence of a Muslim community doing its Islamic thing freely and openly ...)

The blog entry cited by Jules is said to be a reprint of an article by Mordechai Kedar called "A Country without Muslims." It appeared on another blog called Middle East and Terrorism. The page where the original ostensibly appeared now has this notice instead of the article:

Editor's note: The veracity of the content of this article has been challenged. The article will be restored if and when its content can be verified.

In other words, they pulled the article due to challenges in verification. For those who wonder if Scherk pulls stuff out of his ass, here is one site out of many that tackles items of bullshit in Kedar's article -- the linchpin claim that Muslim immigrants are officially barred from citizenship.

But let's unpack the claims made in the article and see if they reflect reality:

1. On the diplomatic level, senior political figures from Islamic countries almost never visit Japan, and Japanese leaders rarely visit Muslim countries.
   1. FALSE
2. The official policy of Japan is not to give citizenship to Muslims who come to Japan, and even permits for permanent residency are given sparingly to Muslims.
   1. FALSE
3. Japan forbids exhorting people to adopt the religion of Islam (Dawah), and any Muslim who actively encourages conversion to Islam is seen as proselytizing to a foreign and undesirable culture.
   1. FALSE
4. Few academic institutions teach the Arabic language.
   1. MISLEADING
5. It is very difficult to import books of the Qur’an to Japan
   1. FALSE
6. Muslims who come to Japan, are usually employees of foreign companies.
   1. MISLEADING
7. In Japan there are very few mosques.
   1. MISLEADING
8. The official policy of the Japanese authorities is to make every effort not to allow entry to Muslims
   1. FALSE
9. Japanese society expects Muslim men to pray at home.
   1. MISLEADING
10. Japanese companies seeking foreign workers specifically note that they are not interested in Muslim workers.
    1. FALSE
11. Any Muslim who does manage to enter Japan will find it very difficult to rent an apartment.
    1. MISLEADING
12. Anywhere a Muslim lives, the neighbors become uneasy.
    1. UNWARRANTED
13. Japan forbids the establishment of Islamic organizations, so setting up Islamic institutions such as mosques and schools is almost impossible. In Tokyo there is only one imam.
    1. FALSE
14. If a Japanese woman marries a Muslim, she will be considered an outcast by her social and familial environment.
    1. MISLEADING
15. There is no application of Shari’a law in Japan.
    1. TRUE
16. There is some food in Japan that is halal, kosher according to Islamic law, but it is not easy to find it in the supermarket.
    1. MISLEADING
17. The Japanese approach to Muslims is also evidenced by the numbers: in Japan there are 127 million residents, but only ten thousand Muslims, less than one hundredth of a percent.
    1. MISLEADING
18. The number of Japanese who have converted is thought to be few.
    1. UNWARRANTED
19. In Japan there are a few tens of thousands of foreign workers who are Muslim, mainly from Pakistan, who have managed to enter Japan as workers with construction companies.
    1. FALSE
20. However, because of the negative attitude towards Islam they keep a low profile.
    1. UNWARRANTED
21. The Japanese tend to lump all Muslims together as fundamentalists who are unwilling to give up their traditional point of view and adopt modern ways of thinking and behavior.
    1. UNWARRANTED
22. In Japan, Islam is perceived as a strange religion, that any intelligent person should avoid.
    1. UNWARRANTED
23. Most Japanese have no religion, but behaviors connected with the Shinto religion along with elements of Buddhism are integrated into national customs.
    1. TRUE-ISH
24. In Japan, religion is connected to the nationalist concept, and prejudices exist towards foreigners whether they are Chinese, Korean, Malaysian or Indonesian, and Westerners don’t escape this phenomenon either.
    1. MISLEADING CONFLATION
25. Japanese dismiss the concept of monotheism and faith in an abstract god, because their world concept is apparently connected to the material, not to faith and emotions.
    1. UNWARRANTED
26. It seems that they group Judaism together with Islam.
    1. UNWARRANTED
27. Christianity exists in Japan and is not regarded negatively, apparently because the image of Jesus perceived in Japan is like the images of Buddha and Shinto.
    1. UNWARRANTED OPINION
28. The Japanese do not feel the need to apologize to Muslims for the negative way in which they relate to Islam. They make a clear distinction between their economic interest in resources of oil and gas from Muslim countries, which behooves Japan to maintain good relations with these countries on the one hand, and on the other hand, the Japanese nationalist viewpoints, which see Islam as something that is suitable for others, not for Japan, and therefore the Muslims must remain outside.
    1. UNWARRANTED
29. Because the Japanese have a gentle temperament, and project serenity and tranquility toward foreigners, foreigners tend to relate to the Japanese with politeness and respect.
    1. UNWARRANTED, MISLEADING
30. A Japanese diplomat would never raise his voice or speak rudely in the presence of foreigners, therefore foreigners relate to the Japanese with respect, despite their racism and discrimination against Muslims in the matter of immigration.
    1. MISLEADING
31. A Japanese official who is presented with an embarrassing question regarding the way the Japanese relate to Muslims, will usually refrain from answering, because he knows that a truthful answer would arouse anger, and he is both unable and unwilling to give an answer that is not true. He will smile but not answer, and if pressed, he will ask for time so that his superiors can answer, while he knows that this answer will never come.
    1. MISLEADING / CONFLATION
32. Japan manages to remain a country almost without a Muslim presence because Japan’s negative attitude toward Islam and Muslims pervades every level of the population, from the man in the street to organizations and companies to senior officialdom.
    1. FALSE AND MISLEADING CONFLATION
33. In Japan, contrary to the situation in other countries, there are no “human rights” organizations to offer support to Muslims’ claims against the government’s position.
    1. FALSE
34. In Japan no one illegally smuggles Muslims into the country to earn a few yen, and almost no one gives them the legal support they would need in order to get permits for temporary or permanent residency or citizenship.
    1. MISLEADING
35. Another thing that helps the Japanese keep Muslim immigration to their shores to a minimum is the Japanese attitude toward the employee and employment.
    1. MISLEADING
36. Migrant workers are perceived negatively in Japan, because they take the place of Japanese workers.
    1. UNWARRANTED
37. A Japanese employer feels obligated to employ Japanese workers even if it costs much more than it would to employ foreign workers.
    1. UNWARRANTED
38. The traditional connection between an employee and employer in Japan is much stronger than in the West, and the employer and employee feel a mutual commitment to each other: an employer feels obligated to give his employee a livelihood, and the employee feels obligated to give the employer the fruit of his labor.
    1. MISLEADING
39. This situation does not encourage the acceptance of foreign workers, whose commitment to the employers is low.
    1. UNWARRANTED
40. The fact that the public and the officials are united in their attitude against Muslim immigration has created a sort of iron wall around Japan that Muslims lack both the permission and the capability to overcome.
    1. FALSE
41. This iron wall silences the world’s criticism of Japan in this matter, because the world understands that there is no point in criticizing the Japanese, since criticism will not convince them to open the gates of Japan to Muslim immigration.
    1. FALSE

The article by Kedar has absolutely no references. That's the first clue that the author is pulling things out of his ass.

The most important falsities in the article concern 'official' Japan -- what is allowed by law, what is not, the limits of religious life. When these falsities are blended with impressionist opinions about Japanese culture or social habits, the results are misleading at best, gross distortions at worst.

So, does Japan ban or otherwise interfere with 'importation' of Korans or other religious texts? NO. Japan has constitutional protection for the free expression of religion. Japan has a profusion of old and new religions, cults, sects, apocalyptic crackpots, even terror-cults like the one that attacked with deadly Sarin in the Tokyo subway.

We can credit the American occupation authorities with the spirit of religious freedom evident in Japan's basic law.

So, if -- contrary to the author's certainty -- there is no official ban, limit, crimp, regulation and so on on the practice of Islam, then many of the subsidiary claims fall apart: The reason they fail is because of conflation. Consider that if Japan does not inquire and does not record a guest-worker or immigrant's religion, and does not prohibit the establishments of mosques, and does not prohibit imports of the Koran, then what about the claims of the author that Muslims face discrimination that prevents them from practicing their religion?

Well, they fail. In each case where the author claims a limit to Islamic behaviour, he tends to conflate two things -- prejudices and discrimination (againsts foreigners) that well may be apparent in Japanese society, and official state acts and practices targeted at Muslims alone.

Japan is a relatively homogenous population. To become a naturalized citizen is not easy (as in USA/Canada), and there is no automatic 'natural born' citizenship to be had -- except by those who have native Japanese parents. This means there are communities of Koreans (especially) and others who have residency but not full civil rights -- ie, the right to vote. Among the estimated ~ 200k Muslims in Japan, there is a mix of 'native' ethnic Japanese born to Muslim families, naturalized Muslims, and registered foreign workers.

The point being that the misleading claims above use sleight-of-hand, replacing 'immigrant/worker' with Muslim. As if the difficulties in achieving Japanese residency or citizenship are not faced by other non-Muslim people. As a matter of fact, there is no racial/ethnic/religious bar faced by a Muslim would-be immigrant that is not faced by a non-Muslim.†

-- if you mark out the false claims and the misleading claims that are derived from the false, it leaves us mostly with unwarranted claims. I don't know if any of the thread participants are wanting to do some due diligence and fact-checking on the remainder. I'll stand by in hopeful expectation.

_______________________________________

** From the blog's "About" page, these are the recommendations given for controlling and eliminating Islam:

There are sensible ways to tackle Islamic terrorism and make the future safer for the world:

1. Islam must be made illegal and defined as a foreign fascist ideology, not a religion.
2. Ban and demolish all mosques. Believe us be: every single mosque in the West contribute to terror funding by ‘donations for Muslim causes’. Jihad is the core foundation of Islam and a duty. Each and every mosque goer is expected to contribute in some way or the other.
3. Ban the Koran and burn them; block the content from being accessed online.
4. Remove all practicing and religious Muslims from the West. Completely. Deport them by canceling residency, revoking passports and visas through a reversed ruling on basis of incompatibility and ineligibility.
5. Countries that refuse or block to take Muslim immigrants back to their own countries need to be fined and sanctioned. Expelled Muslims to their home countries should be booked on a one-way flight to their homeland, disembarked and left at the airport for local officials to deal with.
6. Ban all trade with and from the Muslim (majority and ruling) world.
7. Ban all travels to and from the Muslim world.
8. All sales of properties owned by Muslims in the West need to be revoked of all ownership. The properties should be resold at market value. Funds, minus government fees, should be allotted for poverty alleviation in the owner’s home country (medical, education, housing, jobs).
9. Ban all banking and payments to and from the Muslim (majority and ruling) world to other non-Muslim countries.
10. Ban all investments to and from the Muslim world.
11. End the entire oil trade with the Muslims. The oil trade continues to be an endless source of Islamic terrorism.
12. Until a total ban is put in place, sanction Muslim countries from trading in oil to non-Muslim nations. (We need a permanent replacement of oil for our energy needs).
13. Muslims who are in prison in the West, before they are deported, must be separated from non-Muslims.
14. Muslim charged with plotting, planning or committing terrorism should be executed. As an option, a bilateral agreement can be signed with Saudi Arabia to execute them sharia-style by beheading.
15. Muslims must be permanently banned from any jobs within law enforcement, immigration, government.
16. Borders must be protected with three levels of boundaries with clear warnings within each boundary. Illegals forcing entry into the third boundary gets shot at their own volition.

† -- from "Becoming Legally Japanese: Citizenship by Naturalization":

Can Muslims acquire Japanese citizenship/nationality or permanent residency?

YES.

I've seen a lot of misinformation regarding Japanese nationality over the years, and it has generally been getting better over time as non-Japanese get more access to information in languages other than Japanese, Chinese, and Korean.

However, a viral post has been circulating around the net that was recently forwarded to me and thus caught my attention. The post has been used as propaganda by both pro-Islam and anti-Islam sides.

Unfortunately, the point they're arguing about — whether the Japanese government and its laws and its Constitution, restrict immigration on the basis of religion (Islam) — is entirely false. Enumerated below are sample points from the post which are most related to the topics this site covers:

"Japan is the only nation that does not give citizenship to Muslims."

Absolutely false. In fact, there's a contributing author to this web site who was Muslim at the time of application. There is no place anywhere on the written application where one specifies their religion or creed. Nor have I read anywhere about anyone being asked about their religious beliefs in the verbal interviews.

Because there is no place on the written online application for one's religion, the Ministry of Justice can't publish statistics showing the religions (or races) of naturalization candidates; they can only publish sex and former nationality statistics.

However, looking at the nationality statistics, we can find hundreds of examples of people from Islamic states (ex. Indonesia, Iran, and Pakistan) as well as people from nation-states where the official state religion is Islam (ex. Egypt) and greater than 90% of the population is Muslim. Doing a quick web search, I can find Japanese immigration lawyers who specialize in people from Indonesia and brag of a "100% success rate".

Thus, it's very reasonable to conclude from this that while the bulk of those who naturalize are Chinese and Korean, a large percentage of the remaining naturalization candidates are followers of Islam.

Edited January 14, 2015 by william.scherk

[william.scherk]

Only one book...like I said THEY don't have a problem with Islamic radicals. They did the SMART thing seeing as it is hard to separate the good from the bad apples they said to hell with all of them. By NOT allowing them to take root in the FIRST place they unlike us do not have to deal with it from a "oh shit how are we ever going to clean up THIS mess." They avoided the mess all together. Do you SEE Islamic anyone crying and complaining about the Japanese valuing their OWN culture over anyone else's? No. If I as a westerner want to go to Japan and want to be treated with respect I bloody well learn Japanese and at the very least if I do not practice their culture I respect it and do my best to make an attempt to fit in. I certainly do not go brandishing a Quran and try and shove Islam down the Japanese throats.

[ ... ]

MSK hit it on the head. Separation of state from religion. The Japanese are about the only success story on the entire planet when it comes to Islam. The west is too PC to do the right thing.

MSK did hit it on the head, I thought, especially by highlighting "the freak-villain persuasion technique." He also noted as he does: "If you identify something incorrectly, it doesn't matter how you judge it. Your judgment will not be based in reality."

Now, on the subject of Japan and its Muslims, the separation between state and religion and the liberty to practice religion are much like Canada and the USA -- constitutionally protected.

Your points then seem not rational or informed:

• "They (Japan) did the SMART thing seeing as it is hard to separate the good from the bad apples they said to hell with all of them.

Japan did not and does not do what was claimed in the preposterous article you cited.

• By NOT allowing them to take root in the FIRST place they unlike us do not have to deal with it from a "oh shit how are we ever going to clean up THIS mess."

Japan has Muslims. Their religious practice is constitutionally-protected, just like here in Canada

• They avoided the mess all together.

Japan as a whole has a tiny Muslim minority, of native Japanese and of resident aliens. It has a robust free press and a very active, even militant brand of pressure groups.

• Do you SEE Islamic anyone crying and complaining about the Japanese valuing their OWN culture over anyone else's? No.

The biggest beef of Japanese Muslims are things like vandalizing and destroying symbols of Islam and its Japanese mosques and madrasas. See this report on such events back in 2001.

• If I as a westerner want to go to Japan and want to be treated with respect I bloody well learn Japanese and at the very least if I do not practice their culture I respect it and do my best to make an attempt to fit in.

You are, I expect, an atheist. In Japan you are free to choose your religion or lack of religion.

• I certainly do not go brandishing a Quran and try and shove Islam down the Japanese throats.

That's nice.

Here's a two parter video on Muslims in Japan, some twenty minutes in total. The report is happily free of viral baloney. Maybe you will reconsider your opinions. Maybe you would offer better information about Muslims -- how about an angry post about Canada and its Muslim communities? If you are working in the Patch, no doubt you have worked alongside Muslims. It would be interesting to have your point of view on something you have personally experienced. Maybe one day somebody 'brandished' a Bible at your doorstep, and wanted to harangue you about Jehovah ... maybe somebody tried to shove the Book of Mormon down your throat.

On the subject of Islam in Japan, I think some more homework may be necessary.

Here's a precis of Muslim Japan, with some excellent references:

BEGINNINGS

Japan’s first major contact with Islam came in the late 1800s, through its relations with the Ottoman Empire, and a few Japanese travelers became Muslims during this time. However, the first confirmed establishment of the religion was in the early 20th century, when Muslims from the Tatar ethnic group began immigrating to Japan from Russia. Muslims from India founded Japan’s first mosque in Kobe in 1935, and the first mosque in Tokyo was established three years later by Tatar Muslims. Native Japanese Muslims soon began growing in influence as well, and many of them began making the Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca.

GROWTH

Islam in Japan continued to grow over the following decades, with many new associations and Muslim centers established in the country. The numbers of Muslim immigrants and local converts both expanded, with many Japanese Muslims returning to Japan after World War II, a number of Pakistanis moving to the country in the 1950s, and an influx of students from the Muslim world arriving in the 1960s. In 1982, the Muslim population of Japan was estimated at 30,000, half of which was said to be made up of native Japanese people.

TODAY

There are no official statistics on the number of Muslims in Japan today, but research by the Pew Forum estimated their numbers at about 185,000 in 2010. This would put them at about one-tenth of one percent of the country’s population. Japan’s constitution protects religious freedom and guarantees separation of religion and the government, so Islam and all other religions are considered equal under the law.

DEMOGRAPHICS

Foreign immigrants now form the vast majority of Muslims in Japan. There is little information available on which sects of Islam they adhere to, but the bulk of them come from Sunni-majority Asian countries such as Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan. There are nevertheless thousands of native Japanese Muslims as well, many of them women who have married immigrant workers from Pakistan and Bangladesh.

SOCIETY

Muslims in Japan look to the country’s several dozen mosques as centers of their religious and social lives, visiting for both prayer and Islamic education. In places without mosques, local Muslim communities meet and pray in homes or rented apartments. Because it is common in Japanese culture to eat pork and drink alcohol, both of which are forbidden by Islam, Muslims in Japan sometimes encounter difficulties in meeting social expectations. However, they are for the most part accepted into the society and there are now various shops and restaurants catering to the needs of Islamic Halal dietary rules.

Here are the references:

Islamic Center of Japan: History of Islam in Japan

Islam: Beliefs and Observances; Caesar E. Farah, Ph.D.

The Pew Forum: The Future of the Global Muslim Population

Islamic Center of Japan: Life in Japan

Japan Focus: Local Mosques and the Lives of Muslims in Japan

The Constitution of Japan

The Pew Forum: Mapping the Global Muslim Population

Asia-Pacific Human Rights Information Center: The Everyday Life of Muslims in Japan

Only one book...

Yes, perhaps we should say that the principle of freedom to distribute books cannot have been seriously violated if there is only one instance of it not being upheld. ...

The logic is simple, elegant and relentless.

1. You cannot buy certain books in the U.S. without attracting the attention of the NSA.

2. The U.S. is a free country, right?

3. Therefore Quran-banning Japan must be a free country too!

There is no ban on the Koran in Japan -- so, the logical entailments are tainted by irrational assumptions in the first place. Oddly, Jules seems not to see the internal illogic of his stance.

On the one hand, Japan holds strongly to separation of religion and state (thus, there is no state religion, and no religious test for office, and no official statistics collected on religion of immigrants and guest-workers). Jules is strongly for this kind of deliberate constitutional protection of its citizens' human rights -- it is the same protection Canadians and Americans enjoy.

On the other hand, Jules mistakenly believes that Japan as a state interferes with the free expression of religion -- by banning or controlling imports of Islamic 'holy' texts. And despite his errors, he thinks that a state interfering with free expression, conscience, association and so on is just fine, apparently. I might have it wrong, but.

It doesn't make sense to me to hold these two notions as compatible. Why shouldn't Canada ban the Koran, inhibit mosque building, reject Muslim immigrants on the basis of religion? This is where Jules lives, and this is where the Muslim population is building. If the (falsely claimed) restrictions on religious behaviour are great for Japan, why not Canada and the USA (and the UK, and France, and etcetera)?

I don't understand Ed Hudgins' fact-free borrowing from an anonymous Youtube video, nor his flouncing off from the scene refusing to discuss his sources. I do not understand Jules' fact-free assumptions regarding Japan. I don't understand how Objectivists and Rand-admirers or small-O objectivists fail to use rational means to check 'facts' against reality. Reality is what we want to discuss, right? And we are right to toss out bullshit and preposterous nonsense no matter from where it was spawned, no?

Frankly, some of us are starting to ape the ugly prejudices proffered by Richard the Infidel, implacable in the face of contradiction, full of general malice toward the generic Muslim, and informed by the worst bigotry.

[Jules Troy]

Guilty! I did not check the veracity of the article.

(Slaps hands)

Ps I don't give a crap where they build mosques as long as it isn't in a national park or the Great Bear Rainforest!

[Francisco Ferrer]

!

[Francisco Ferrer]

Scherk's research shows that we've been arguing over a phantom.

[Jules Troy]

Scherk's research shows that we've been arguing over a phantom.

[Jules Troy]

I know!

Well on the bright side I am glad to be proven wrong(agaiiinnnnn).?

Yup I get a bit hot headed when I see things like what happened in France. But I DONT go all "let's bomb all the mosques".

I honestly do not know what the solution to extremism is. Letter bomb them with AS?

Keep satirical cartoons flowing? (I don't see other religions killing cartoonists).

Continue offending them as a method of weeding out the extremists so they can be arrested or killed? Not exactly practical and we would probably run out of cartoonists before we run out of people willing to kill them...

Mass immigrate to the Middle East, go on welfare and out breed them? Lol wait..they are doing that to us.

Rant rant rant

[Selene]

Step one is securing the borders.

If that means building a modern Hadrian's Wall, or, the a modern Great Wall of China, so be it. As long as we do not emulate the French and build a Maginot Line wherein the entrenched cannons supposedly could only rotate 90 degrees.

It shall cover both land borders of the United States continental area,

The water borders will have to be separately addressed.

Once that is done, then we can discuss a simple immigration policy which will be sunsetted three (3) years from its passage.

It would have to be re-authorized for three (3) more years, or, terminate. Kinda like a consultanting contract.

Then we could address the illegal individuals who exist within the secured borders of the United State.

A...