why people become Islamic extremists...


moralist

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This video addresses the liberal lie that poverty and lack of education produce Islamic mass murderers.

I contend that leftist, America hating government subsidized Universities are medrasas where Islamic murderers are nurtured.

Greg

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But primarily through the sanction of their religion. That's the base. Poverty is incidental. Affluence seems to work much better. It helps cause guilt and fear of envy. Jihad is pretending to be one of the boys, so it's also tribal.

--Brant

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It's a sloppy mess, that video. Haroon Ullah spends the first minute expounding on stupid or unfounded 'explanations' ... but he gives zero reference to anyone actually putting forward these explanations. Straw man.

 

This is third-grade level instruction.  Much better to read one of his books or interviews. Here is one from The Diplomat. Why he has to dumb down his material is inexplicable. He is a smart and accomplished guy.


Being a died-in-the-wool libertine feminized librarian/librul/boorokrat, I dropped him a tweet:
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Let me answer that question without watching the video:

Firstly, it needs to be taken on a case by case basis, there are many different forms of Islamic Extremism and many Islamic Extremists will never be violent. I look towards mental health and history. There was a time when Islam was more respected than today. There are problems with the form of Western Liberal 'Christianity' practiced in the USA and rather than examine them individually and come up with solutions, people bundle them together and identify them as evil and conjure utopic visions of a wonderful islamic world (based partly on successes Islamic regions have had in the past).

Every society has its scapegoat. The US is multicultural and every culture has its own perspective, but there are a few things that most cultures agree on in the USA. The scapegoat of the USA has historically been Africans, there was a time when it was Irish/Italians/Jews/some other groups but for most of history Africans have been the low men on the totem pole. After 9/11 it was Muslims, for a while after that it was gays. Now we have a (partly) African president and gay marriage became legal so the gays aren't on the bottom anymore and Muslims. It's massive social upheaval in a relatively short period of time and some people can't handle that without becoming violent. This also explains the violence of that (poor, white, uneducated) Dylann Storm Roof psycho.

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Who are those making the poverty/ignorance argument?

You do have to be truly blind to ask such a stupid question, William.

Liberals are constantly banging on the "poverty causes crime" drum in the media. And their solution is always to spend more money on government poverty and education programs... when government education is infested with tenured secular leftist America haters who are the Islamic fascists' allies.

You just don't see it because you're a bureaucrat.

Greg

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Who are those making the poverty/ignorance argument?

You do have to be truly blind to ask such a stupid question, William.

Liberals are constantly banging on the "poverty causes crime" drum in the media. And their solution is always to spend more money on government poverty and education programs... when government education is infested with tenured secular leftist America haters who are the Islamic fascists' allies.

You just don't see it because you're a bureaucrat.

I will copy you on any response I get from Ullah, or you can give us your Twitter handle ...

The point I made (that sailed over your head) is that Ullah used a Straw Man argument. You know what that is. Mr Straw is one of your cognitive companions, it seems to me.

As for the 'because you are a boorokratt,' what silly bogus nonsense. You can't even stay on the topic you have initiated: Why People Become Islamic Extremists ...

The boilerplate about feminized booro libertine yadda yadda blah is both sad and hilarious. It is too bad you don't appreciate your own mental handicaps. It's like you have a fear and envy and loathing of people who are better educated and intelligent than you are; boil them in the oil of Name-Calling. No greater loathing than for someone with a college education, private or not. Such bitter envy of other people smarter than you, better able to think, analyze and argue.

But I will leave off the sofa-psychology and intemperate insults and sit back and wait for your next dump of trash.

Edited by william.scherk
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Let me answer that question without watching the video:

Firstly, it needs to be taken on a case by case basis, there are many different forms of Islamic Extremism and many Islamic Extremists will never be violent. I look towards mental health and history. There was a time when Islam was more respected than today. There are problems with the form of Western Liberal 'Christianity' practiced in the USA and rather than examine them individually and come up with solutions, people bundle them together and identify them as evil and conjure utopic visions of a wonderful islamic world (based partly on successes Islamic regions have had in the past).

Every society has its scapegoat. The US is multicultural and every culture has its own perspective, but there are a few things that most cultures agree on in the USA. The scapegoat of the USA has historically been Africans, there was a time when it was Irish/Italians/Jews/some other groups but for most of history Africans have been the low men on the totem pole. After 9/11 it was Muslims, for a while after that it was gays. Now we have a (partly) African president and gay marriage became legal so the gays aren't on the bottom anymore and Muslims. It's massive social upheaval in a relatively short period of time and some people can't handle that without becoming violent. This also explains the violence of that (poor, white, uneducated) Dylann Storm Roof psycho.

First it needs to be taken on a general basis and the basis of Jihad is Islam. The Muslim religion as it such is today is the problem. Second, you parse out the fascists. If you have a group of 1000 and 900 are Christians and 100 are Muslims, the group of 100 is where you are most likely to find the suiciders. It's part of the profile.

--Brant

my practical trumps your theorectical for you don't know where to begin

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Let me answer that question without watching the video:

Firstly, it needs to be taken on a case by case basis, there are many different forms of Islamic Extremism ...

RR:

At least I have an understanding now that you have no "mental excuse" for the way you argue.

You have never learned.

Let's redefine what I am talking about.

First, I could care less that there are Heinz 57 varieties of "Islamic Extremism."

The 19 hijackers were Muslim Islamic Extremists. They killed friends of mine, friends family members and professional associates as well as my father's fellow NYFD members as well as the NYFD Chaplain, who was a close personal friend of my father.

I won't list all the prior attacks, murders and attempts by Muslim Islamic Extremists against my fellow individual citizens at the World Trade Center in 1993, over Detroit, in Times Square, at Fort Hood, snipers in D.C., military recruiters in the South killed by Muslim Islamic Extremists.

Therefore, we shall profile all Muslim's until that segment of that community is eradicated.

Second, if there is collusion between the parents, friends, associates, etc. and the attack, their property will be confiscated, they will be stripped of their citizenship [if that takes a new one (1) page bill, so be it] and deported to their country of origin.

Third, all immigration to this country shall be immediately frozen.

Legal immigrants will be validated at specific centers where complete medical exams will be conducted, as well as in depth interviews.

At that point, a decision will be made and there will be several conditional "citizenships" permitted with semi annual personal reviews which if missed will immediately terminate the conditional citizenship status and the person shall be deported.

I am not done yet, however you see where this is going.

I am done watching our service men and women being targets for these enemy combatants.

A...

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Who are those making the poverty/ignorance argument?

You do have to be truly blind to ask such a stupid question, William.

Liberals are constantly banging on the "poverty causes crime" drum in the media. And their solution is always to spend more money on government poverty and education programs... when government education is infested with tenured secular leftist America haters who are the Islamic fascists' allies.

You just don't see it because you're a bureaucrat.

I will copy you on any response I get from Ullah, or you can give us your Twitter handle ...

Sorry, William... I don't bother reading your bureaucratic drivel beyond the initial couple of sentences.

Greg

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This video addresses the liberal lie that poverty and lack of education produce Islamic mass murderers.

I contend that leftist, America hating government subsidized Universities are medrasas where Islamic murderers are nurtured.

Greg

What has caused and nurtured Christian murderers and tortureres? Was it American-hating feminized leftists who started the Inquisition?

J

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What has caused and nurtured Christian murderers and tortureres? Was it American-hating feminized leftists who started the Inquisition?

Only a feminized liberal would defend Islamic fascist murderers with the infantile cry:

"Well, they're doing it too!"

demsealsm.jpg

The weakness in your secular leftist view is that you need to go back into the dead past 500 years trying to find something you only feel excuses what is happening today.

There's no fool like a liberal government educated fool. :wink:

Greg

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This video addresses the liberal lie that poverty and lack of education produce Islamic mass murderers.

I contend that leftist, America hating government subsidized Universities are medrasas where Islamic murderers are nurtured.

Greg

Good video as far as it goes, but it doesn't address the enabling religion itself. Maybe the next video?

--Brant

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I just saw the video. It's quite good.

The reason people become extremists is a search for meaning. Then the adoption of a narrative that provides meaning to them.

People become suicide bombers. They go to war. The do all kinds of brutal things to other humans, all in the name of the meaning provided by their core story.

Also, young people do not believe the narrative of hypocrites. So they look elsewhere. ISIS, from the perspective of the disaffected within the Islamic environment, looks an awful lot like the members walk their talk. And that Allah is blessing their efforts.

That can be enormously appealing when a person feels betrayed by his culture.

The problem is the narrative to replace this one with. A narrative of rebuttal will fall on deaf ears. Modern life needs to be sold to these young people in a form where they can believe life is not all corruption and immorality in their future.

I do agree that Haroon Ullah's examples of false reasons for extremism are kinda lame. I've seen them mentioned in the early days after 9/11, but in recent times, almost not at all.

It appeared to me he was working off a template to make his video, needed some examples of false narrative because the template demanded it, and put in the script the first things that came to mind.

Michael

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What has caused and nurtured Christian murderers and tortureres? Was it American-hating feminized leftists who started the Inquisition?

Only a feminized liberal would defend Islamic fascist murderers with the infantile cry:

"Well, they're doing it too!"

demsealsm.jpg

Well, then it's a good thing that I didn't defend murder or do any infantile crying. I asked a very simple question, and my asking it got you so emotionally worked up that you couldn't focus on answering it, but were instead governed by your emotions into lashing out at me.

The weakness in your secular leftist view is that you need to go back into the dead past 500 years trying to find something you only feel excuses what is happening today.

Idiot, I don't think that anything excuses murder. Rather, I think that psycho, religious extremism should be condemned regardless of which religion practices it. My question to you was simply about what you attribute to being the cause of the murder and torture that Christians have committed. Answer it. Control your little emotions and answer the question like a civilized adult.

There's no fool like a liberal government educated fool. :wink:

Greg

I don't know about that. Wherever you were "educated" created a fool like none I've ever encountered before. :wink:

J

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I don't know about that. Wherever you were "educated" created a fool like none I've ever encountered before. :wink:

There's lots like you, Jonathan...

...dime a dozen cookie cutter secular leftist libertines...

...mass produced by the government subsidized education system.

Greg

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I just saw the video. It's quite good.

The reason people become extremists is a search for meaning. Then the adoption of a narrative that provides meaning to them.

People become suicide bombers. They go to war. The do all kinds of brutal things to other humans, all in the name of the meaning provided by their core story.

You are so onto something real with your core story principle, Michael. :smile:

Core stories are amoral.

They can give meaning to doing good... or they can give meaning to doing evil.

The ones that give meaning to doing evil are based on lies... because it is impossible to do evil without first believing in a lie.

Greg

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Greg, you're a moral narcissist. You need perfection in yourself for lack of a reasoning base we may call philosophical or even religious. But I don't think you pray very much. I think you're religious only when religion matches up to your suppositions. This is saying you're mostly irrational--that is, basically. You'll embrace rationality the way you embrace religion--to the extent it matches up to what you see looking back at you. You're saved by your individualism. You don't clump together with others the way religious or totalitarian (leftists) do in their more general narcissism. While you're a good guy and they bad guys they also eschew rationality or embrace it as it suits them. These kinds of operative philosophies are floating circularities, reality sacrificers not tied down. In this sense you and all the philosophical bad guys are simpatico. Never mind the turf wars. The basic turf war is over rational vs irrational. So, when someone like Jonathan uses rationality to a result obvious or implied that doesn't fit your cosmology, you attack him. You have to. If you don't you'll completely fall down, sort of like Gail Wynand in The Fountainhead, a fate I doubt you need worry much about. The irony of your calling a hard head like Jonathan a feminized leftist must be completely lost on you; you have so much in common with leftists at the base. You're full of disowned leftism. You have to disown it to function on the practical level you embrace. This is not political leftism. It's the leftism of irrationality. It's contra what Objectivism is supposed to be all about. And science. There are two Objectivisms: the philosophy of Ayn Rand with its irrational cultism--you could embrace that without too much damage by grabbing parts--and cultural lay ons--plenty of narcissism there for the taking--and simply the Objectivism of reality and reason. You only go there to move around rocks.

--Brant

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You're getting what you dish out. In a sense It doesn't matter if it's crap one way or the other. You ad hominem left and right with no real evidence or demonstration of why someone thinks like a bureaucrat or is a liberal, feminized leftist or why that matters. All that counts is the categorization you throw people along with their ideas and arguments into. Now you get it in turn and wonder if I was "drunk." I hardly ever drink and so the answer is, nope. Unlike you, however, I won't keep repeating myself. I'd be bored to tears. So this will soon be buried and you will continue on as before. I do note, however, that I have personally found you to be the single most valuable poster on OL, but your opinions have to be put through a threshing machine. Mine too, I suppose, but like most here I'm not too practical here. Practical is all you've got going for yourself. And I accept it as moral-practical. Others here don't get it, don't want to get it or don't care. Maybe it's because they're feminized, liberal leftists. Anyway, like Ayn Rand said, the moral is the practical.

--Brant

drive by with a tank (twice)

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I don't know about that. Wherever you were "educated" created a fool like none I've ever encountered before. :wink:

There's lots like you, Jonathan...

...dime a dozen cookie cutter secular leftist libertines...

...mass produced by the government subsidized education system.

Greg

You still haven't answered the question, Apey. Instead, you emoted again. Here it is again: What has caused and nurtured Christian murderers and torturers, was it American-hating feminized leftists who started the Inquisition? Why is the question so upsetting to you?

J

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Greg does not do that kind of logical inference and analysis. If he did his whole cosmology would crash and burn and he knows it. He sticks to his myopia and close to home. It's like living and existing in a fort. But I don't think he appreciates what Patton said about fixed fortifications and defending them.

--Brant

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You're getting what you dish out. In a sense It doesn't matter if it's crap one way or the other. You ad hominem left and right with no real evidence or demonstration of why someone thinks like a bureaucrat or is a liberal, feminized leftist or why that matters. All that counts is the categorization you throw people along with their ideas and arguments into. Now you get it in turn and wonder if I was "drunk." I hardly ever drink and so the answer is, nope. Unlike you, however, I won't keep repeating myself. I'd be bored to tears. So this will soon be buried and you will continue on as before. I do note, however, that I have personally found you to be the single most valuable poster on OL, but your opinions have to be put through a threshing machine. Mine too, I suppose, but like most here I'm not too practical here. Practical is all you've got going for yourself. And I accept it as moral-practical. Others here don't get it, don't want to get it or don't care. Maybe it's because they're feminized, liberal leftists. Anyway, like Ayn Rand said, the moral is the practical.

--Brant

drive by with a tank (twice)

Well, it's morning so I guess you aren't. :wink:

I don't mind anything you say. You just need to vent.

There is no connection between Christianity and Islamic fascism today. Jonathan needed to go back 500 years into the dead past to find something. He's blind to the fact that the church went through the Reformation (something I believe Islam has yet to do).

Invoking the 500 year old Inquisition to condemn Christians today is a secular liberal mantra that Jonathan mindlessly chants. Secular leftists do exactly the same with slavery. While people owned slaves 200 years ago in the dead past, therefore they are condemned as racists today.

These liberal mantras are stamped into the doughy minds of mass produced monkeys by the tenured government employed do-nothing failures of the liberal government funded education system. The government trained monkeys merely need to spout them back by rote to "graduate". Government trained monkeys now comprise the political majority. They infest the bureaucracy created in their own simian image...

...of the monkeys... by the monkeys... for the monkeys! :laugh:

Greg

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Greg does not do that kind of logical inference and analysis.

That's right, Brant.

I state my subjective view which is just as subjective as your view or anyone else's subjective view...

You are left free to determine for yourself how well your own subjective view agrees with objective reality by the consequences of your own actions.

The only difference between us is that I know my view is subjective... and you don't! :laugh:

Greg

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There is no connection between Christianity and Islamic fascism today. Jonathan needed to go back 500 years into the dead past to find something. He's blind to the fact that the church went through the Reformation (something I believe Islam has yet to do).

Invoking the 500 year old Inquisition to condemn Christians today is a secular liberal mantra that Jonathan mindlessly chants. Secular leftists do exactly the same with slavery. While people owned slaves 200 years ago in the dead past, therefore they are condemned as racists today.

Greg:

I do not know Jonathan personally.

However, I am certain that he virtually never does anything "mindlessly," nor, would he be a "chanter."

Jonathan is not making any argument, or, comparison of Christianity/Inquisition and Islamic Fascism.

He is challenging your "reflexive" "chanting" of your basic foundational assumptions which is fair game.

You gain nothing by dismissing him.

Simply answer his question.

A...

Post Script: Yes, Greg, I know that you are not trying to "gain" anything and that all these statements are our subjective positions.

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