anthony

Hypocrisy, and then some!

15 posts in this topic

From the article.

. . . Abbas stated: "Every drop of blood that has been spilled in Jerusalem is holy blood as long as it is for Allah. Every martyr (Shahid) will reach paradise, and everyone wounded will be rewarded, Allah willing. The Al-Aqsa Mosque is ours, and they [Jews] have no right to defile it with their filthy feet. We will not allow them to [defile it], and we will do everything in our power to protect Jerusalem."

Talk about vitriol. I don’t support any country that does not allow religious liberty, and I am not for state sponsored religions like Israel’s either, though they do allow religious freedom.

Peter  

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He's about the be run over by history.

As soon as he loses US sanction he's what he really is--nothing. The PLO will have no more use for him.

--Brant

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13 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

He's about the be run over by history.

As soon as he loses US sanction he's what he really is--nothing. The PLO will have no more use for him.

--Brant

After him is a bigger headache. The influence of Hamas is growing in the West Bank, and I suspect, or probably heard, that Israel is having to prop up Abbas and his PA, to keep the devil they know.

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When the Israeli's won the 6 day war they should have booted out every single "Palestinian".  No one would have said shit.  Kinda late now.  

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4 hours ago, Jules Troy said:

When the Israeli's won the 6 day war they should have booted out every single "Palestinian".  No one would have said shit.  Kinda late now.  

at that time Israel did not have the resources or the man power to do it.  In addition that Palestinians were being hired to fill many jobs  that Israelis  is wouldn't or couldn't do.   Here is an analogy. In the U.S.  illegals  from south of the Rio Grande (mostly Mexicans)  have  a lock on the landscape and gardening trades in California and the south west.,  In addition most of the crop  harvesters are illegals from that group.  If we tossed them the crops would not be harvested, the apples picked or the weeds pulled at a price anyone could afford.   Cracking down and easing up of illegals   is a chaotic dynamical process in the U.S.  and was so long before Trump.  One of the jokes that Latinos used to crack  was --- Hey hombre  don't worry.  If they kick us out the weeds will over grow the gardens and lawns of the gringos.  I think that should give you some idea.  Palestinian labor at the low end of the skill set  is a major component of the day to day  Israeli economy.  

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12 hours ago, Jules Troy said:

When the Israeli's won the 6 day war they should have booted out every single "Palestinian".  No one would have said shit.  Kinda late now.  

There is a line of thought that the 'Palestinians' back then (who'd overwhelmingly supported the belligerent nations who attacked Israel) weren't actually defeated - and so Israel was not actually, de jure, the victor - because Israel was too prepared to make compassionate allowances, in victory, for the sake of peace. It was their niceness that did for them. Not that lefty altruists today will admit that or give them an ounce of credit! The occupying power of the West Bank, Jordan (who'd forced out centuries-old Jewish communities there) lost (in that war) the entire territory, which could have been seized by Israel as the legitimate gains of war. The Arab locals could have been faced with the choice: stay in and become Israeli citizens - or leave as refugees to Jordan. 

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Bob, The Palestinian (legal) worker was how things eventually transpired. He wasn't a pragmatic cause, the way you put it. For a long while too, before attacks and Intifadas, the West Bank border posts were very relaxed affairs, with two-way traffic and Israelis coming and going as well. As a friend tells it, and I've heard from family there, you could get pretty good dental care, auto mechanics, meat, etc. at far lower costs by going through to the Palestinian side.

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40 minutes ago, anthony said:

It was their niceness that did for them.

Tony,

This has been going on since the Biblical times of Moses.

Take a look at Numbers, 33:50-56 (King James version and my bold):

Quote

50 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,

51 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;

52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

53 And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.

54 And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit.

55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

56 Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.

Canaan is basically where Israel is now and was inhabited at the time by the descendents of Ham, Noah's son, whose son, Canaan, got cursed in his daddy's place. It had something to do with Ham (Canaan's father) seeing his own father (Noah) naked during a bender or some other unmentionable shameful act.

The people in Canaan (the land) worshiped primitive statue gods with human sacrifice and that, apparently, pissed off God.

A parallel could be made with present-day human sacrifice of suicide bombers as a form of worship among the modern-day descendents of Ham (basically, the Arabs, but, to be fair, only the fanatical Islamist wing practices human sacrifice these days).

And for the Israelis, man, have the Palestinians been "pricks in their eyes and thorns in their sides." And still they do not drive them out. :) 

Over there, all things change, but nothing changes.

Michael

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1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

This has been going on since the Biblical times of Moses.

Take a look at Numbers, 33:50-56 (King James version and my bold):

Canaan is basically where Israel is now and was inhabited at the time by the descendents of Ham, Noah's son, whose son, Canaan, got cursed in his daddy's place. It had something to do with Ham (Canaan's father) seeing his own father (Noah) naked during a bender or some other unmentionable shameful act.

The people in Canaan (the land) worshiped primitive statue gods with human sacrifice and that, apparently, pissed off God.

A parallel could be made with present-day human sacrifice of suicide bombers as a form of worship among the modern-day descendents of Ham (basically, the Arabs, but, to be fair, only the fanatical Islamist wing practices human sacrifice these days).

And for the Israelis, man, have the Palestinians been "pricks in their eyes and thorns in their sides." And still they do not drive them out. :) 

Over there, all things change, but nothing changes.

Michael

"And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land and dwell therein...

Good one! I hadn't seen this apt scripture. He's one tough, uncompromising Lord - Do this, or I undo you.

(There's a hint of Rand, not so?) 

You aggressed on me - and you lost. That means you pay and you lose what you have. You'll have second thoughts about attacking ever again. Be careful of what and whom you follow, there will be personal consequences. 

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29 minutes ago, anthony said:

(There's a hint of Rand, not so?) 

Tony,

Now that I have gone into studying religion a bit, I've seen it.

You wouldn't believe how much Judaism and Christianity are in Rand's works.

She resonates so strongly with religious people because of her use of deep common under-structures.

Here's my prediction for the formal Objectivist movement. It will continue to dwindle as the ortho version.

But there will emerge a strain where Objectivism and Christianity will merge in practice on common ground (where Christianity becomes more symbolic and Objectivism less snarky) and this will become a major ideological force in American society. And this will happen despite the mantra, "There is no compatibility and there can't ever be," from the orthos and other Objectivists I've read over the years.

President Trump's election is probably the beginning of this merging.

Also, I read Yaron Brook is getting a two-hour show over at Glenn Beck's The Blaze. I disagree with Yaron on a lot, but he's not stupid. I imagine he sees the coming tide and I don't expect him to harp on atheism as a deal-killer over there.

Michael

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10 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

Now that I have gone into studying religion a bit, I've seen it.

You wouldn't believe how much Judaism and Christianity are in Rand's works.

She resonates so strongly with religious people because of her use of deep common under-structures.

Here's my prediction for the formal Objectivist movement. It will continue to dwindle as the ortho version.

But there will emerge a strain where Objectivism and Christianity will merge in practice on common ground (where Christianity becomes more symbolic and Objectivism less snarky) and this will become a major ideological force in American society. And this will happen despite the mantra, "There is no compatibility and there can't ever be," from the orthos and other Objectivists I've read over the years.

President Trump's election is probably the beginning of this merging.

Also, I read Yaron Brook is getting a two-hour show over at Glenn Beck's The Blaze. I disagree with Yaron on a lot, but he's not stupid. I imagine he sees the coming tide and I don't expect him to harp on atheism as a deal-killer over there.

Michael

In spite of being an atheist,  Rand's   understanding of Justice is quintessentially Jewish. I believe others have noticed that and have remarked so.

One can take a person out of the Synagogue  but it is nearly impossible to take the Jewishness out of that person.  We not only bear its mark in the flesh from day 8 (if a male)  but it is as thorough an indoctrination program as ever that has been  contrived.  I have pretty well given up on the theological aspects (though not absolutely)  however in the matter of understanding right and wrong  I am Jewish down to the subatomic level. Also my grasp of the human condition is  thoroughly Jewish. 

By the way,  Judaism is not the least bit altruistic  (that is one way it differs from Christianity).  Also Jews when circumstances impell can be totally non-sentimental.  Don't let Tevye fool you.   In a pinch Tevye is very tough. 

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On 6/11/2017 at 5:45 PM, BaalChatzaf said:

 

By the way,  Judaism is not the least bit altruistic  (that is one way it differs from Christianity).  

Judaism is not "altruistic" (meaning, self-sacrificial). But most Left wing Jews are heavy duty altruists, cozying up to causes of the Left and to groups which will continue hating Jews despite their apologetic efforts to distance themselves from a Jewish State.

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28 minutes ago, anthony said:

Judaism is not "altruistic" (meaning, self-sacrificial). But most Left wing Jews are heavy duty altruists, cozying up to causes of the Left and to groups which will continue hating Jews despite their efforts to distance themselves from a Jewish State.

And then there are the rest of us...,  Keep in mind the first generation of Objectivists were mostly people brought up Jewish.  Then there is the crew from Commentary Magazine.  Most of them Jewish  ex Trotsky-ites   who "saw the light and went far right".  These are the ur neoconservatives.

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Israel gave the West Bank over to the PLO letting Arafat return. That left the PLO in charge of the Palestinians and then Hamas. Cursed "democracy" in action.

Objectively speaking, Israel is a creation of political insanity mostly courtesy of the Brits, but the world that was is not the world that is and each generation has to deal with what's on the table.

The main thrust of United States foreign policy has been degenerative and destructive generation to generation. In the maximum macro sense it started with the War Between the States. (The nomenclature of "Civil War" was part of the victor's justice.) Then it spread overseas with the inevitable rise in American power and moral arrogance. Closer in time the First Gulf War (Bush I) wasn't so bad for it essentially stopped at the Iraq border in spite of the missiles and the bombs, but the invasion of 2003 (Bush II) was completely unjustified and unnecessary. Then Obama made a mess by pulling out like one grossly incompetent surgeon replacing another not so bad comparatively in the middle of the operation.

Now here is and here comes Trump the Wild Card flanked and backed (and led?) by T-Rex and Mad Dog and the United States seriously involved in Eastern Europe, the Middle East and China's pretensions in the South China Sea and North Korean nutzos.

At least Iran hasn't the bomba--yet.

--Brant

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