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    • Michael Stuart Kelly

      Major Update to OL (please click to open)   02/09/2016

      Sorry for the inconvenience, but we had to update OL and there have been some serious changes made by IPB. The real bad news is that they had to merge User Names and Display Names. This meant that I had to choose between bad and bad. I opted to keep the log-on information the same, so you can get on OL like you always did, but now your User Name is displayed. If your User Name and Display Name were the same, you will not feel the change. If they were different, you are probably irritated right now. I will figure out how you can change this so you can revert to the Display Name you used before if you like, however this may entail a change in how you log-on. The good news is that OL is now searchable from the very beginning. This means all the old posts from the A-Team in Objectivism (and everybody else) will finally show up when you search for something. I will keep changing this announcement as we adapt to these new changes. It's a pain, I know, but after looking around the backend for a bit, I believe the benefits will far, far outweigh the current irritation. They changed things in a hamhanded way and I don't like that, but I can't do anything about it. Benefit-wise, they actually did a good job, so please bear with us. In addition to this change, many good things are coming over time. You are the reason OL exists and I am sorry you have to go through this. Think of it like birth pangs... (All right, all right, that's forcing it.  ) Michael
Brant Gaede

Watch Out!

21 posts in this topic

A few days ago I lost control of a bungee cord.The tip snapped directly into my left eye. The emergency room sent me to a specialist. The doc took a look and gave me a couple of prescriptions. I saw him again today and he liked what he saw and told me to come back in two weeks. He expects no permanent consequences. I was very lucky. You should see my bloody eyeball.

Be careful with those damn things.

--Brant

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A few days ago I lost control of a bungee cord.The tip snapped directly into my left eye. The emergency room sent me to a specialist. The doc took a look and gave me a couple of prescriptions. I saw him again today and he liked what he saw and told me to come back in two weeks. He expects no permanent consequences. I was very lucky. You should see my bloody eyeball.

Be careful with those damn things.

--Brant

Brant:

I was getting a lot concerned when you were not clear about the injury.

Glad you are ok. One of the major reasons that I never would wear contacts is because I have had pebbles flick off my lenses as I walked on the side of the Long Island Expressway.

I have had BB's bounce back off my lenses when we were learning to shoot.

And of course with whatever you were securing with the cord, I would never think of needing to wear safety glasses.

Adam

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Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Brant!

I always wear safety glasses, a helmet and ISO 15607 gloves when attaching bungee cords. However, I do not often do this work myself. Rather, I hire a state-licensed contractor. :rolleyes:

No, but seriously, folks...

In two incidents, a decade apart, my brother and I traded blows while horsing around, each taking a hit to a front tooth - jousting with clothes line poles; and arguing over an air hose. We both have really nice repairs. His involved a cow bone. I showed mine to a co-worker who showed me his. He was working on a car with the engine running, and dropped a screw driver; it hit the fan and flew up into his face. He was lucky he wasn't killed. And today, fans have cowls.

A supervisor was killed on the job. We used to make fun of him for always putting up the plastic safety chains and stuff. He was really methodical (to be polite). One day, he came in early to prep for a safety inspection and we found him dead by an electrical control cabinet. No idea what happened. One of the others who, like me, was more health conscious about cholesterol and all that, said, "a guy like that, he takes a discharge and it stops his heart." But that was speculation, at best.

My brother-in-law is a born-again Christian; and we went to a presentation at his church. There were like seven skits in which people died unexpectedly. One who was saved had just moments before saved his co-worker when the scaffold broke and both enjoyed their reward. It did not convert me to the religion, but I stopped taking being alive for granted. ... even though I understand the fail-safes on scaffolding...

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Brant, if it is not too personal, what on earth were you doing with a bungee cord?

Aren't they for bungee jumping?

What are they anyway?

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Brant, if it is not too personal, what on earth were you doing with a bungee cord?

Aren't they for bungee jumping?

What are they anyway?

They're elastic cords of varying lengths with two hooks for securing cargo. They're needed by guys who never learned their boy scout knots.

--Brant

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Brant, if it is not too personal, what on earth were you doing with a bungee cord?

Aren't they for bungee jumping?

What are they anyway?

They're elastic cords of varying lengths with two hooks for securing cargo. They're needed by guys who never learned their boy scout knots.

--Brant

Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad my sons were Scouts.

My husband was blinded by a steel chip that got into his eye at work despite the safety glasses he always wore. (They were the company-issued ones, later found to be substandard in every respect). The company nurse missed the chip when she inspected his eye, and when it got worse and he finally went to our family doctor, the cornea had been destroyed.

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further to scouts, were you in the scouts ? Not just Brant , anyone. As I said both my boys joined, to their advantage I think, certainly to their enjoyment. My husband was a Queen's Scout, and his father was a King's scout being older, and had a personal letter from Baden-Powell.

Full disclosure, I was a Girl Guide. Not a great one. I enjoyed camping though. Up to a point.

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further to scouts, were you in the scouts ? Not just Brant , anyone. As I said both my boys joined, to their advantage I think, certainly to their enjoyment. My husband was a Queen's Scout, and his father was a King's scout being older, and had a personal letter from Baden-Powell.

Full disclosure, I was a Girl Guide. Not a great one. I enjoyed camping though. Up to a point.

My Mother was a Girl Guide when she lived for a while in Vancouver in the 1920s. They had some dorky song-poem about trees that ended "With a salute to each big tree!"

--Brant

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Brant, if it is not too personal, what on earth were you doing with a bungee cord?

Aren't they for bungee jumping?

What are they anyway?

They're elastic cords of varying lengths with two hooks for securing cargo. They're needed by guys who never learned their boy scout knots.

--Brant

Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad my sons were Scouts.

My husband was blinded by a steel chip that got into his eye at work despite the safety glasses he always wore. (They were the company-issued ones, later found to be substandard in every respect). The company nurse missed the chip when she inspected his eye, and when it got worse and he finally went to our family doctor, the cornea had been destroyed.

I had a chunk torn out of my cornea, but the doc expects complete healing.

--Brant

the only thing a nurse is good for when it comes to eyes is referral to a doctor no matter what she finds or doesn't find. I got sent by a nurse to a nurse-practitioner to the emergency room doc to an opthamologist. They added some joke to the emergency room called "Fast Track" which is the slow track to the emergency room--if you actually get there. I keep telling the triage nurses I was born there so deserve extra consideration over those people who've been shot arriving by helicopter.

--Brant

privileged

entitled

whatever

"If I was a rich man" (If I was a big shot [i'd get shot shot shot])

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bungee%20ASSMBLIES.jpg Bungee cords

PD2102-00_1_thmb_L.JPGNot bungee cords, but really excellent for securing submissives when not traveling

Just trying to be helpful

Adam

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bungee%20ASSMBLIES.jpg Bungee cords

PD2102-00_1_thmb_L.JPGNot bungee cords, but really excellent for securing submissives when not traveling

Just trying to be helpful

Adam

Well, I guess we know who got the most knot-tying badges in Troop 007.

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bungee%20ASSMBLIES.jpg Bungee cords

PD2102-00_1_thmb_L.JPGNot bungee cords, but really excellent for securing submissives when not traveling

Just trying to be helpful

Adam

Well, I guess we know who got the most knot-tying badges in Troop 007.

Carol:

Nope, never a boy scout.

I did make it a point to know a few girl scouts though.

Grew up in a fire department household. Additionally, learned my other wilderness skills from farmers, hunters and trappers in Pennsylvania where I spent an almost equal amount of time growing up as I did in NY City.

Adam

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On the subject of BUP and MUP, benevolent universe premise (shit does not happen) and malevolent universe premise (shit happens), I believe both. Shit happens unless you prevent it from happening. And usually an accident could have been prevented from happening.

Case 1:

Some years ago I was working alongside a guy who was cutting steel with a torch. He was not wearing eye protection and sparks were flying toward his eyes. I told him he should wear eye protection. He agreed with me that he should wear eye protection but he continued to work without eye protection. He told me several stories about getting something in an eye, including a time or 2 he had to go to a doctor. He was a true believer in BUP.

Case 2:

A man I worked alongside told me this story. The boss told him to clean up the place and then turn the water hose on it to make it clean. He refused to spray water on the place. The pavement was at a slant and the water would freeze and the place would be an accident waiting to happen. This is an example of MUP unless you use your brain and then it doesn't happen.

Case 3:

The city of Edmonton has a train called the LRT (Light Rail Transit). It uses electricity and goes fast. It has safety features in its design. To open the door you push a button. But the door will not open when the train is in motion. When the door is open the train will not move. The train is designed to prevent MUP from happening.

Case 4:

I worked for a company that was extremely safety minded. My first day on the job, first thing in the day, we got to watch a movie, on company time, actually getting paid to watch a movie. It was about safety. After the movie there was a lively Q & A session. The regular employees were very interested in the subject of safety. The company had an almost fantastic record for safety. Accidents can be prevented, or at least greatly reduced. But not the Ayn Rand way. The universe really is out to get you (= shit happens) unless you outsmart the universe by preventing shit from happening.

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"But not the Ayn Rand way."

What does this mean?

--Brant

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:cool:

jts,

Reliably an interesting POV.

Flippantly, Rand's BUP is that, yes, shit happens - but you always will know what caused it.

Even if only after the fact.

Then you can see the universe is not actually out to get you.

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"But not the Ayn Rand way."

What does this mean?

--Brant

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/benevolent_universe_premise.html

This is why Ayn Rand’s heroes respond to disaster, when it does strike, with a single instantaneous response: action—what can they do? If there’s any chance at all, they refuse to accept defeat. They do what they can to counter the danger, because they are on the premise that success, not failure, is the to-be-expected.

Ayn Rand's way is to not expect shit to happen and then when it happens to counter it.

So for example a Randian hero would cut steel with a torch without eye protection and when a spark gets in an eye, go to a doctor. I would wear eye protection.

A Randian hero would spray water on slanted pavement and the water would freeze. When an accident happens, the Randian hero would deal with it. I would not spray water on slanted pavement if there is any possibility that the water would freeze.

A Randian hero would design a train door that would open when the train is in motion and the train could start moving when the door is open.

A company run by a Randian hero would not be safety minded and would have a high accident rate.

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"But not the Ayn Rand way."

What does this mean?

--Brant

http://aynrandlexico...se_premise.html

This is why Ayn Rand’s heroes respond to disaster, when it does strike, with a single instantaneous response: action—what can they do? If there’s any chance at all, they refuse to accept defeat. They do what they can to counter the danger, because they are on the premise that success, not failure, is the to-be-expected.

Ayn Rand's way is to not expect shit to happen and then when it happens to counter it.

So for example a Randian hero would cut steel with a torch without eye protection and when a spark gets in an eye, go to a doctor. I would wear eye protection.

A Randian hero would spray water on slanted pavement and the water would freeze. When an accident happens, the Randian hero would deal with it. I would not spray water on slanted pavement if there is any possibility that the water would freeze.

A Randian hero would design a train door that would open when the train is in motion and the train could start moving when the door is open.

A company run by a Randian hero would not be safety minded and would have a high accident rate.

Sorry, but that is not the AR "way." The universe ain't out to get anybody and Rand never advocated dealing with reality merely reactively as if one doesn't know the stove is hot time and time again. I survived war by being careful and got whopped in the eye by not thinking clearly about what I was doing. However, on a deeper level, her benevolent-malevolent universe premise was wrong and you got it right that way if you drop the other way. She tied it into sense of life, another dubious proposition.

--Brant

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Ayn Rand's way is to not expect shit to happen and then when it happens to counter it.

So for example a Randian hero would cut steel with a torch without eye protection and when a spark gets in an eye, go to a doctor. I would wear eye protection.

A Randian hero would spray water on slanted pavement and the water would freeze. When an accident happens, the Randian hero would deal with it. I would not spray water on slanted pavement if there is any possibility that the water would freeze.

A Randian hero would design a train door that would open when the train is in motion and the train could start moving when the door is open.

A company run by a Randian hero would not be safety minded and would have a high accident rate.

Jerry:

This is completely wrong. For example, Rearden's mills were extremely safe. Where in Ayn's writings, fiction, or, non-fiction do you find a careless.or, unsafe approach to functioning with reality?

Adam

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I thought it was just that bad shit is not ominous, but rather coincidental. If you fucked up your eye, it's not the end of the world. It's bad but it's not so bad that you can't move on.

Or perhaps it's the difference between views of entitlement. Is anything less than a perfect life the result of an infringing malevolent universe? Or is anything more than non-existence the result of a benevolent one?

A more relevant scenario would be someone working without eye protection before they knew the dangers of using a torch. They would learn their lesson, not just about using torches but about identifying dangerous situations. And how can we put a price on lessons? The more costly a lesson seems, the more potentially valuable... so it's really hard to weigh the cost to the theoretical gains.

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I thought it was just that bad shit is not ominous, but rather coincidental. If you fucked up your eye, it's not the end of the world. It's bad but it's not so bad that you can't move on.

Or perhaps it's the difference between views of entitlement. Is anything less than a perfect life the result of an infringing malevolent universe? Or is anything more than non-existence the result of a benevolent one?

A more relevant scenario would be someone working without eye protection before they knew the dangers of using a torch. They would learn their lesson, not just about using torches but about identifying dangerous situations. And how can we put a price on lessons? The more costly a lesson seems, the more potentially valuable... so it's really hard to weigh the cost to the theoretical gains.

You are confusing the universe with the people who live in it.Someone who knows about the importance of eye protection, and works with what he believes is eye protection but isn't, has no lessons to learn. It is the people who do not double check the safety precautions of their employers, who have the lessons to learn.

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I was just imagining someone using a torch for the sake of it, I didn't work out whether he was being paid to do it or not. Even so, you can't take away the responsibility from the individual. Just because a bunch of other people aren't wearing eye protection doesn't mean it's their fault for my injury because they gave me the impression that it wasn't necessary.

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