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    • Michael Stuart Kelly

      New upgrade with simpler interface   05/13/2016

      Once again, the fine folks at IPB made a new upgrade and things might not be where you started to learn they were. However, this is one time where I think they actually improved things for navigation. There are only a few big buttons: When you click on one of those buttons, some other stuff opens up, depending on which button you click. (Later Note: These only appear when zoomed in or in the mode for smartphones/tablets.) I'm learning this as you are, so I suggest you do what I am doing: click on these big buttons, see what they open and fiddle with the software some. Ironically, you will find there is a lot that is intuitive. That's what I'm discovering. (Later note: I just discovered that I was viewing the site zoomed in too far to see the normal view. The menus are still there with the old buttons, but when I zoom in too much, they disappear and the new buttons appear. I believe this zoomed in way is what the site looks like on mobile devices. I'm going to mess with it some more, then maybe make some explanations.) Sorry for the inconvenience. Still, over time, I hope you end up liking these changes. Michael
J.S. McGowan

Terry Gilliam's Brazil

14 posts in this topic

Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.

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Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.

Jacob:

Yes. I have. Very weird sci. fi. movie with heavy satire.

You are lucky though because Michael, one of the owners of this forum lived in Brazil for a lot of years and knows the country well and I am sure he has seen the movie also.

Adam

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Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.

-Brazil- is what -1984- would have been if Orwell had a sense of humor.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Has anyone seen the movie Brazil? I really enjoyed it. But it had a pretty morbid plot and I dont quite know what moral it is trying to impart. id like to know what other people think of it.

Jacob:

Yes. I have. Very weird sci. fi. movie with heavy satire.

You are lucky though because Michael, one of the owners of this forum lived in Brazil for a lot of years and knows the country well and I am sure he has seen the movie also.

Adam

The only thing Brazil about -Brazil- was the song Brazil used as a theme song throughout the motion picture.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Am I wrong in saying that Ayn Rand didnt like 1984... do you think she also would not have liked Brazil?

they are both very similar in plot: but in 1984 Winston at the end comes to love Big Brother whereas Sam Lowry ends up going insane (so he doesnt really compremise his values...)

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Am I wrong in saying that Ayn Rand didnt like 1984... do you think she also would not have liked Brazil?

they are both very similar in plot: but in 1984 Winston at the end comes to love Big Brother whereas Sam Lowry ends up going insane (so he doesnt really compremise his values...)

Jacob:

Don't worry about validation of your point of view. Between you me and the proverbial wall, Ayn's judgment on art, music etc., frankly sucked.

Adam

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im just curious as to what ayn rand would have thought of Brazil. Plus i do think that plots should ultimately have some moral value. and im wondering whether the fact that sam lowry ultimately went crazy rather than give up his values gives Brazil value in the eyes of the Objectivist philosophy. I think it does...

Im reading We the Living at the moment and doesnt its main characters/ heroes die in the end? doesnt that contradict ayn rand usual plot premise? (I cant say to much on the topic as i have not finished the book yet :P )

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im just curious as to what ayn rand would have thought of Brazil. Plus i do think that plots should ultimately have some moral value. and im wondering whether the fact that sam lowry ultimately went crazy rather than give up his values gives Brazil value in the eyes of the Objectivist philosophy. I think it does...

Im reading We the Living at the moment and doesnt its main characters/ heroes die in the end? doesnt that contradict ayn rand usual plot premise? (I cant say to much on the topic as i have not finished the book yet :tongue: )

Jacob:

Understand that this was her first major novel. She was developing her ideas. No comment on the plot and the ending. Enjoy. Read Anthem also. It is available on line.

If you cannot access it, I will e-mail it to you.

Adam

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I have read anthem and I enjoyed it alot. especially the anthem part :)

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Jeff Riggenbach hasn't posted on OL for a long time, but I just sent him an email about this thread in the hope that he will write some comments about Brazil. He is a big fan of the movie, and I recall a conversation many years ago in which he had some very interesting things to say about it.

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Jeff Riggenbach hasn't posted on OL for a long time, but I just sent him an email about this thread in the hope that he will write some comments about Brazil. He is a big fan of the movie, and I recall a conversation many years ago in which he had some very interesting things to say about it.

cool id be interested to hear :)

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I've never heard of Rand herself saying anything about 1984 (though she took a dim view of Animal Farm in one of her published letters). Branden in Who is Ayn Rand? and Peikoff in a podcast point out that Orwell depicts a regime that is at once totalitarian and very advanced and capable technologically; this is squarely at odds with Randian thinking, and history has shown that she was right and Orwell was wrong.

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I've never heard of Rand herself saying anything about 1984 (though she took a dim view of Animal Farm in one of her published letters). Branden in Who is Ayn Rand? and Peikoff in a podcast point out that Orwell depicts a regime that is at once totalitarian and very advanced and capable technologically; this is squarely at odds with Randian thinking, and history has shown that she was right and Orwell was wrong.

yes thats the opinion on 1984 that i heard.. it was one of Peikoffs Podcasts. I remember now :)

but can the regime in 1984 be regarded as advanced and technologically capable? in the book the regime was barely able to maintain adequate lifestyles for its people. the majority live in abject poverty and the party members live on pathetic rations. I think the fault of the book is that it gives too much psychological power to the "Big Brother" regime. I don't think any totalitarian dictatorship could maintain the level of fanaticism that is in 1984. i think people would become distant and impartial and hence the regime would have no grounding in the public mind and would collapse.

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The regime can't produce abundance (or at least isn't willing to grant it), but it can produce advanced technology. Perhaps the anomaly you point out comes from Orwell's own failure to think things through.

One theory is that the book is actually a satire of the postwar Labourite England in which it was written and that the economic conditions in the story take off from the austerity and rationing that prevailed at the time. Similarly, I suspect that the shortages, petty corruptions and falling living standards in the early chapters of Atlas Shrugged were a depiction of the wartime America in which Rand started to write it.

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