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    • Michael Stuart Kelly

      Major Update to OL (please click to open)   02/09/2016

      Sorry for the inconvenience, but we had to update OL and there have been some serious changes made by IPB. The real bad news is that they had to merge User Names and Display Names. This meant that I had to choose between bad and bad. I opted to keep the log-on information the same, so you can get on OL like you always did, but now your User Name is displayed. If your User Name and Display Name were the same, you will not feel the change. If they were different, you are probably irritated right now. I will figure out how you can change this so you can revert to the Display Name you used before if you like, however this may entail a change in how you log-on. The good news is that OL is now searchable from the very beginning. This means all the old posts from the A-Team in Objectivism (and everybody else) will finally show up when you search for something. I will keep changing this announcement as we adapt to these new changes. It's a pain, I know, but after looking around the backend for a bit, I believe the benefits will far, far outweigh the current irritation. They changed things in a hamhanded way and I don't like that, but I can't do anything about it. Benefit-wise, they actually did a good job, so please bear with us. In addition to this change, many good things are coming over time. You are the reason OL exists and I am sorry you have to go through this. Think of it like birth pangs... (All right, all right, that's forcing it.  ) Michael
Selene

Marketing - It Is All About Getting Your Attention - Northern Italian Lady Gets It Right! Umm Does She Ever!

63 posts in this topic

Check out the pictures of this creative Northern Italian entrepreneuress!

Ladies, Would This Woman Keep Your Man Out Of The Starbucks?

Friday, February 24, 2012

article-2105339-11E04848000005DC-987_306x423.jpg

After eight years running a bar, Laura Maggi suddenly found men beating a path to her door.

============================================

Cream and sugar with that espresso, signore?

So Adam, when you next visit the ancestral homeland I guess we know where you are going first.

If your lady lets you.

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Carol:

I am not the like the Mayor's husband...the little cuckold should wear panties...and he would probably enjoy that!

Wimp!

Adam

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Carol:

I am not the like the Mayor's husband...the little cuckold should wear panties...and he would probably enjoy that!

Wimp!

Adam

lol. Then first stop on your itinerary will be meeting the mayor's husband and having a man-to-man talk with him, Atlas in hand.

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Carol:

I am not the like the Mayor's husband...the little cuckold should wear panties...and he would probably enjoy that!

Wimp!

Adam

Now, now. The wearing of opposite sex underwear is often merely a matter of practicality. I am wearing a nice pair of jockey shorts right now, the former property of my son. They are a little loose but they are comfy and well-made and certainly clean, which none of my own underwear was this morning.

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Carol:

I am not the like the Mayor's husband...the little cuckold should wear panties...and he would probably enjoy that!

Wimp!

Adam

Now, now. The wearing of opposite sex underwear is often merely a matter of practicality. I am wearing a nice pair of jockey shorts right now, the former property of my son. They are a little loose but they are comfy and well-made and certainly clean, which none of my own underwear was this morning.

Words evade me...any I could chose would just get me in deeper...hmmm now let me reflect on that option...

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Carol:

I am not the like the Mayor's husband...the little cuckold should wear panties...and he would probably enjoy that!

Wimp!

Adam

Now, now. The wearing of opposite sex underwear is often merely a matter of practicality. I am wearing a nice pair of jockey shorts right now, the former property of my son. They are a little loose but they are comfy and well-made and certainly clean, which none of my own underwear was this morning.

Words evade me...any I could chose would just get me in deeper...hmmm now let me reflect on that option...

Actually sex sells.

Flesh sells. People don't want to see pictures of churches. They want to see naked bodies.

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Carol:

I am not the like the Mayor's husband...the little cuckold should wear panties...and he would probably enjoy that!

Wimp!

Adam

Now, now. The wearing of opposite sex underwear is often merely a matter of practicality. I am wearing a nice pair of jockey shorts right now, the former property of my son. They are a little loose but they are comfy and well-made and certainly clean, which none of my own underwear was this morning.

Words evade me...any I could chose would just get me in deeper...hmmm now let me reflect on that option...

Actually sex sells.

Flesh sells. People don't want to see pictures of churches. They want to see naked bodies.

It is not news that sex sells. If you are implying that there is any money to be made out of Adam's reflections on cross-dressing, that would be interesting to hear.

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Carol:

I am not the like the Mayor's husband...the little cuckold should wear panties...and he would probably enjoy that!

Wimp!

Adam

Now, now. The wearing of opposite sex underwear is often merely a matter of practicality. I am wearing a nice pair of jockey shorts right now, the former property of my son. They are a little loose but they are comfy and well-made and certainly clean, which none of my own underwear was this morning.

Words evade me...any I could chose would just get me in deeper...hmmm now let me reflect on that option...

Actually sex sells.

Flesh sells. People don't want to see pictures of churches. They want to see naked bodies.

It is not news that sex sells. If you are implying that there is any money to be made out of Adam's reflections on cross-dressing, that would be interesting to hear.

cross dressing is a fetish like tentacle porn or play toys in the bed room

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cross dressing is a fetish like tentacle porn or play toys in the bed room

History

Tentacled creatures appeared in Japanese erotica long before animated pornography. Among the most famous of the early instances is an illustration from the novel Kinoe no komatsu of 1814 by Katsushika Hokusai. It is an example of shunga (Japanese erotic art) and has been reworked by a number of artists. Australian artist David Laity reworked the design into a painting of the same name, and Masami Teraoka brought the image up to date with his 2001 work "Sarah and Octopus/Seventh Heaven", part of his Waves and Plagues collection.

A scholarly paper by Danielle Talerico[2] showed that although western audiences have often interpreted Hokusai’s famous design as rape, Japanese audiences of the Edo period would have associated it with consensual sex. Edo audiences would recognize the print as depicting the legend of the female abalone diver Tamatori. In the story, Tamatori steals a jewel from the Dragon King. However, during her egress, the Dragon King and his sea-life minions (including octopodes) pursue her. Furthermore, within the dialogue in the illustration itself, the diver and two octopuses express mutual enjoyment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentacle_erotica

Apparently, anime rape by tentacles is quite pronounced.

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Calvin:

Step back and think about what you are saying.

Adam

Maybe I'm not being clear. Would you attempt to sell a product you didn't find value in yourself, and if so, would you lie?

As for advertising... it's all about lying. You try to create the impression that your product is more than it actually is. You try to show how your product will bring the consumer happiness... Don't tell me you can do that honestly. And when people get into marketing, their goal is to be able to effectively market products that they know won't really benefit people.

Everyone from my high school with mediocre grades went to college for either business or marketing.

What are you defending? I have no issue with people's right to advertise shitty products, or people's right to buy them. I don't have a problem with people's right to drink bleach, or convince someone else to drink bleach either... but do I think it's moral to actually do it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

No good?

But for something like the OP, it's not a big deal to let people reward themselves how they want. But how people choose their rewards depends on how honestly they earn their money...

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When you treat the "weak" as weak you help them stay weak. MYOFB!

-Brant

Unfortunately, when people allow themselves to be lead, they do more than hurt themselves.

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You try to show how your product will bring the consumer happiness... Don't tell me you can do that honestly.

You can do that honestly.

Michael

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You can honestly highlight certain aspects of your product, but the happiness that may come from it has to be decided by the consumer. You can't tell them what they should like, but that's exactly what the goal of advertising is these days.

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Calvin,

Here's the short version.

When you do marketing honestly, you make a study of both your customer and your product. It's not that hard to find out what kinds of products make different target markets happy--the people tell you themselves.

Go to Amazon and read the user reviews. Go to forums and read the posts. Go to YouTube and read comments. It's all over.

An honest marketer makes a proper fit between product and market--and will emphasize that fit in order to stand out and attract attention in a competitive environment. A dishonest marketer will promise his product fits when it doesn't.

Do you really think a person who loves dogs will object to being told that a certain dog product will make him happy because his dog will love it and it is good for his dog--when his dog actually will love it and it actually is good for his dog?

If you don't tell him he'll be happy and he buys an inferior product from a competitor who does, later, if he discovers your product, he'll wonder why on earth you never said anything to attract him. If he thinks about marketing at all, he'll think your marketing sucks and feel slightly resentful (all that wasted time suffering with a bad product when you had his solution and did a poor job of letting him know)--and he'll be right.

The ethics question goes a lot deeper than that, but if you don't see the logic with this surface level, you will not see it with any.

If you are really down on advertising and think all marketing is evil, you will probably enjoy a site I read on Internet marketing. The guy hates all Internet marketing on principle. I read him because I think he's good at exposing the true dirt-bags in the industry and I like to see what the real dirty laundry is of the gurus I study. He is incredibly well-documented, but he hasn't convinced me that the good guys are bad or that people are dirtier than they are (I have a good BS detector for both their BS and his). Maybe you will resonate with him;

Salty Droid

Michael

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Do you really think a person who loves dogs will object to being told that a certain dog product will make him happy because his dog will love it and it is good for his dog--when his dog actually will love it and it actually is good for his dog?

Let's say the product is dog treats. The salesperson's goal is to convince the consumer that these dog treats are better than the one's the consumer has previously been buying. They're healthier and the dog will like them more.

So... are they the absolute best? Does the salesperson believe they are the best possible option? If so, do the people representing all the other dog biscuit companies also believe that theirs is best.... or are they just doing what they have to do to get paid?

What about a car salesman who wants his commission but knows his potential customer is not in a financial position to buy a new car... Does he tell the guy to save his money?

I'm not saying sales and marketing are not effective, or that they have no place in an ideal world.... but their place would only be in the spreading of awareness.

What a company says about its own product should not really matter. By saying that, I am not implying in anyway that there should be regulations or laws to make sure marketing doesn't get out of hand. Actually, I think the opposite. I think the government should allow ANYTHING to be said in advertisements as in compliance with the first amendment. The fact that there are laws about what you can and can't say about your product creates the idea that every advertisement that has been allowed has a sort of stamp of approval from the government. If there were no rules to advertising, there would be a necessity for research companies, and consumers would actually have to decide for themselves what they ought to buy.

If the U.S. government had not spent, borrowed, stolen and printed so much money, American businesses would not have been able to profit from sending all their production jobs overseas and turning everyone at home into salespeople and assorted pencil pushers.

They created their false reality where everyone was rich and everyone deserved to treat themselves all the time...

Yes, Adam, the point of sales is to make the sale. I get it. But what's the point of the product that can't sell itself?

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Yes, Adam, the point of sales is to make the sale. I get it. But what's the point of the product that can't sell itself?

For example, an over the counter medicine that tastes really bad?

I do not think that is what you mean.

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If it is better than the competition, stores will choose to stock it. If the pharmacist knows what he's talking about, he will recommend it as an act of good customer service.

Will a billboard help an intelligent consumer make a purchase? No. But that sort of advertising is done all the time... why? Because they play to the unintelligent consumer, instead.

Why are there so many unintelligent consumers? Because the economy has been toyed with.

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Why are there so many unintelligent consumers? Because the economy has been toyed with.

I don't know if that statement is valid.

Prove your argument.

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I'm not saying sales and marketing are not effective, or that they have no place in an ideal world.... but their place would only be in the spreading of awareness.

Calvin,

Why?

Because you say so?

I would not want to live in a world like that.

Human nature exists.

Maybe--to you--in an ideal world, human nature would not be human nature and humans would be something else?

Michael

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I find it hard to fathom capitalism ( = free enterprise) without salespeople and advertising. Of course, with them comes some stretching the truth, misrepresentation and even fraud. It's a bit ironic to me that salespeople and advertising are rarely mentioned in Atlas Shrugged, and the tone is negative when they are.

"That's all there is to it," the fattish Dr. Blodgett announced through the microphone, in the ingratiating sales tone of a department-store floorwalker.

That Mortgage Company was a sort of noisy outfit that did a lot of advertising about easy credit.

After graduation, he took a job in the advertising department of a company that manufactured a bogus corn-cure. The cure sold well and he rose to be the head of his department. He left it to take charge of the advertising of a hair-restorer, then of a patented brassière, then of a new soap, then of a soft drink—and then he became advertising vice-president of an automobile concern. He tried to sell automobiles as if they were a bogus corn-cure. They did not sell. He blamed it on the insufficiency of his advertising budget.

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To Michael: All I mean is in an ideal world people wouldn't be influenced to buy something because the company that makes it says it's good. They'd want more information. The only point of advertising if the world were like that would be to announce when an anticipated product had been completed/released. In my ideal world, businesses would have to build a reputation before they became hugely successful; and that can only happen if consumers smarten up.

Adam: I can't prove it exactly, but I assume when people go into debt and spend more money than they can repay, they've probably bought some stuff they didn't really need.

I hope the consumer outgrows this behavior so the corporations can start focusing on the actual product.

edit: I'll give you my limited understanding of the situation, with some conjecture to fill in the gaps. Correct me if I'm way off or just tell me to shut up.

Banks pump money into the economy by offering subprime loans, then corporations rush to collect that money by focusing primarily on marketing and retail. Once the borrowers have been tapped out and cannot repay the money they borrowed, it's the bank's problem... but the bank was never worried to begin with because they own part of or have a connection with The Federal Reserve. The corporations have the borrowed money, but it's theirs now, because they "earned" it. The borrowers lose nothing, because it wasn't their money to begin with. The only people who lose in this situation are the ones that weren't mentioned--the honest people who give money its value.

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To Michael: All I mean is in an ideal world people wouldn't be influenced to buy something because the company that makes it says it's good. They'd want more information. The only point of advertising if the world were like that would be to announce when an anticipated product had been completed/released. In my ideal world, businesses would have to build a reputation before they became hugely successful; and that can only happen if consumers smarten up.

Calvin,

And I repeat, I would not like to live in a world like that.

The only way to achieve that world is to remove all emotion from owning and using products and services.

I like my emotions. And I like my reason.

I like being a human being.

I hear you saying, "Oh, but I'm not talking about owning the product. I'm talking about when you buy it." And I respond, since when are you a human being when owning something but not a human being when acquiring it from a person who owns it?

Or are you imagining an "ideal world" where some coercive organization forces businesses to behave in the manner you find ideal--that would force them to ignore human emotions in their advertising?

Here's even a better question. Do you think you make totally rational decisions when buying a product or service? Heve you never felt, "I've just got to have this thing," and spent way more than you should? And no promises by the seller were false? Say a CD or an item of clothing or a fancy widget? Then a few days after you buy it, you feel uneasy because you've lost interest in it?

Whose responsibility is that?

Yours?

Or do you prefer to blame that on somebody else when it happens? (And dream about some vague notion of an "ideal world"?)

On another point, businesses don't need your "ideal world" to have to worry about their reputation. A poor reputation will sink a business faster than anything a competitor can throw at it--unless the business is protected by the government or something like that. Businesses actually do have to build a reputation in order to become "hugely successful." That is, if they want to exist for any length of time. So I don't see a real beef on that score with what we have now.

EDIT: Apropos, are you interested in educating yourself on this, or are you content issuing generalities based on generalities and pretending like you know what you are talking about? If you are interested in some easy, but informative reading on marketing, I can point you in a few good directions.

Michael

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The best way to market is to start a sudden new trend or fetish.

for instants if you make kama sutra a trend then anything kama sutra sells

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The best way to market is to start a sudden new trend or fetish.

for instants if you make kama sutra a trend then anything kama sutra sells

The ballad of Barbie and the Pet Rock...

Barbie turned fifty three the other day.

Good morning, it’s Friday, March 9, 2012, and it doesn’t seem possible, because she’s still so young-looking and svelte, but Barbie is 53 years old today. The star of Mattel Toys made her debut on March 9, 1959, at the American Toy Fair in New York City.

The folks at Mattel gave Barbie a full name (Barbie Millicent Roberts), a fictional hometown (Willows, Wisconsin) and a boyfriend (Ken, who first appeared in 1961), but it was always Barbie herself – along with those endless outfits – that held American girls in such thrall.

Five decades later, some 800 million Barbies have been sold here and around the world. Anyone that popular is going to invite controversy, and Barbie has seen her share.

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