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basimpson22

Clergymen Say The Darndest Things

46 posts in this topic

I get so frustrated with many of the statements I hear in church. It's especially irritating when someone gets up to lead a prayer and thinks it an opportunity for a short sermon. In this prayer/sermon he blamed all the recent natural disasters on this being a "fallen world". Just because you say something with conviction doesn't make it true. These guys can say some of the most ridiculous things and people just nod along.

The preacher's sermon centered around Pascal's Wager. He talked about all the things we wouldn't have to worry about in hell: listening to sermons, receiving letters about the gospel.... Something that had me a bit confused is that he said we wouldn't have to worry about people criticizing our lifestyle anymore. Well, Mr. Preacher, we definitely wouldn't have to worry about that if there were no self-righteous bigots like yourself, now would we?

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I get so frustrated with many of the statements I hear in church. It's especially irritating when someone gets up to lead a prayer and thinks it an opportunity for a short sermon. In this prayer/sermon he blamed all the recent natural disasters on this being a "fallen world". Just because you say something with conviction doesn't make it true. These guys can say some of the most ridiculous things and people just nod along.

The preacher's sermon centered around Pascal's Wager. He talked about all the things we wouldn't have to worry about in hell: listening to sermons, receiving letters about the gospel.... Something that had me a bit confused is that he said we wouldn't have to worry about people criticizing our lifestyle anymore. Well, Mr. Preacher, we definitely wouldn't have to worry about that if there were no self-righteous bigots like yourself, now would we?

Amen!

Hallelujah...

<<the great Mahalia Jackson!!!!
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... he blamed all the recent natural disasters on this being a "fallen world".

Aristocrates,

That argument has been around since the beginning of religion.

It ain't going anywhere.

The worst part is that the poor dude probably believed what he was saying.

Michael

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Something that had me a bit confused is that he said we wouldn't have to worry about people criticizing our lifestyle anymore.

Judgment of others is very important to some types of Christians because it's an attempt at saving the person you're judging. Even by punishing someone for something on Earth you can save them from being punished by God in their afterlife... And that's not the only reasoning; God demands it be done this way.

He's basically saying you should be thankful for all those things you have up here on Earth, even the judgment.

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Aristocrates,

Are you currently in a position where you can avoid going to church?

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Something that had me a bit confused is that he said we wouldn't have to worry about people criticizing our lifestyle anymore.

Almost all christians will pervert the idea of judgement/criticism. "Oh, we can judge people harshly because we're really just trying to help them..." and the rest of that kind of crap.

It's just not worth thinking about. There are too many issues, and attempting to generalize the issues & your arguments is simply not worth the work (however, I suppose if you're writing a book and such thoughts will further the achievement value and financial success of the book, then nevermind :) ).

Best to write the rant thoroughly (see below) & quickly and get on to better things. How's the degree going? You start fall semester last week too?

Mike

EDIT/ADD: by thoroughly I mean to not leave anything in your head - buildup like that equals stress and, as Rand would say, would clog your motor.

Edited by Mike Hansen
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Aristocrates,

Are you currently in a position where you can avoid going to church?

Yes, I can avoid it but I'm living at home while pursuing a degree. The parents prefer that I go. Going to church has benefits. I don't miss opportunities for dining out . The parents have an overall better disposition toward me. I get to share the wild statements I hear with everyone on OL. It's an opportunity to socialize (i.e. have awkward conversations with people who are effectively strangers and could really care less).

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Something that had me a bit confused is that he said we wouldn't have to worry about people criticizing our lifestyle anymore.

Almost all christians will pervert the idea of judgement/criticism. "Oh, we can judge people harshly because we're really just trying to help them..." and the rest of that kind of crap.

It's just not worth thinking about. There are too many issues, and attempting to generalize the issues & your arguments is simply not worth the work (however, I suppose if you're writing a book and such thoughts will further the achievement value and financial success of the book, then nevermind :) ).

Best to write the rant thoroughly (see below) & quickly and get on to better things. How's the degree going? You start fall semester last week too?

Mike

EDIT/ADD: by thoroughly I mean to not leave anything in your head - buildup like that equals stress and, as Rand would say, would clog your motor.

Actually school starts in the morning for me. I'll be graduating at the end of the semester with an accounting degree. I'm not thinking too hard about it but you've given me something to consider. I do believe there are many questions floating around in my head that are causing me to be distracted, distraction being a precursor to stress.

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Something that had me a bit confused is that he said we wouldn't have to worry about people criticizing our lifestyle anymore.

Judgment of others is very important to some types of Christians because it's an attempt at saving the person you're judging. Even by punishing someone for something on Earth you can save them from being punished by God in their afterlife... And that's not the only reasoning; God demands it be done this way.

He's basically saying you should be thankful for all those things you have up here on Earth, even the judgment.

And are you saying you find that ridiculous?

Edit: you do know that was a facetious comment right?

Edited by Aristocrates
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... he blamed all the recent natural disasters on this being a "fallen world".

Aristocrates,

That argument has been around since the beginning of religion.

It ain't going anywhere.

The worst part is that the poor dude probably believed what he was saying.

Michael

Ignorance is bliss. Oh man, I have to add this. The prayer was battered with King James English, as though it makes the prayer more presentable to God. "we thank thee oh lord for whatsoever thou hast givenest ustestest" Really they should be getting up there and speaking Hebrew.

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I get so frustrated with many of the statements I hear in church. It's especially irritating when someone gets up to lead a prayer and thinks it an opportunity for a short sermon. In this prayer/sermon he blamed all the recent natural disasters on this being a "fallen world". Just because you say something with conviction doesn't make it true. These guys can say some of the most ridiculous things and people just nod along.

The preacher's sermon centered around Pascal's Wager. He talked about all the things we wouldn't have to worry about in hell: listening to sermons, receiving letters about the gospel.... Something that had me a bit confused is that he said we wouldn't have to worry about people criticizing our lifestyle anymore. Well, Mr. Preacher, we definitely wouldn't have to worry about that if there were no self-righteous bigots like yourself, now would we?

Amen!

Hallelujah...

<<the great Mahalia Jackson!!!!

That was a goosebump maker.

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Aristocrates,

Are you currently in a position where you can avoid going to church?

Yes, I can avoid it but I'm living at home while pursuing a degree. The parents prefer that I go. Going to church has benefits. I don't miss opportunities for dining out . The parents have an overall better disposition toward me. I get to share the wild statements I hear with everyone on OL. It's an opportunity to socialize (i.e. have awkward conversations with people who are effectively strangers and could really care less).

I see. Best of luck with your degree, btw.

Just make sure your parents know exactly what you think about Church on a regular basis. That will make you feel better. Tearing up Bibles is also very theraputic.

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... he blamed all the recent natural disasters on this being a "fallen world".

Aristocrates,

That argument has been around since the beginning of religion.

It ain't going anywhere.

The worst part is that the poor dude probably believed what he was saying.

Michael

Ignorance is bliss. Oh man, I have to add this. The prayer was battered with King James English, as though it makes the prayer more presentable to God. "we thank thee oh lord for whatsoever thou hast givenest ustestest" Really they should be getting up there and speaking Hebrew.

What denomination? Just curious as to the monkeys in question. Or take your parents to a Unitarian Universalist church. They should find that thought-provoking. And maybe even horrifying, but for the wrong reasons. You'd like it--it is fun. They have lots of atheists there, and everything. Rand readers. And if you go to one with a not-too-old congregation, very hot pagan chicks. Even if not, usually a very fine collection of intellectual, well-maintained cougars.

Best of luck with the studies.

rde

Payback is a bitch.

Edited by Rich Engle
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It's the Church of Christ. I'm still living at home but no longer feel the need to appease my parents by pretending to care about their religion, i.e. I haven't been to church since December. I'm definitely gonna check out the Unitarian Universalist. Come to find out there are several locations hear in Middle Tennessee....

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It's the Church of Christ. I'm still living at home but no longer feel the need to appease my parents by pretending to care about their religion, i.e. I haven't been to church since December. I'm definitely gonna check out the Unitarian Universalist. Come to find out there are several locations hear in Middle Tennessee....

Attending a Unitarian Service is like sanctifying the drying of paint. The Unitarians are nice reasonable folk, but a bit on the bland side.

The only time I saw any excitement from the local UU Church was when I published an article in the newspaper criticizing their liberal bias and their lack of passion. A bunch of UU activists came over to my house and burned a question mark on my lawn.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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It's the Church of Christ. I'm still living at home but no longer feel the need to appease my parents by pretending to care about their religion, i.e. I haven't been to church since December. I'm definitely gonna check out the Unitarian Universalist. Come to find out there are several locations hear in Middle Tennessee....

Why not start your own religion and "church"?

--Brant

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Attending a Unitarian Service is like sanctifying the drying of paint.

From what it says in the Wikipedia article about UU, the association I have goes more toward 'hodge pogde' ... :smile::

"Contemporary Unitarian Universalism espouses a pluralist approach to religious belief, whereby members may describe themselves as atheist, agnostic, deist, monotheist, pantheist, polytheist, pagan, or assume no label at all."

http://en.wikipedia....an_Universalism

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Attending a Unitarian Service is like sanctifying the drying of paint.

From what it says in the Wikipedia article about UU, the association I have goes more toward 'hodge pogde' ... :smile::

"Contemporary Unitarian Universalism espouses a pluralist approach to religious belief, whereby members may describe themselves as atheist, agnostic, deist, monotheist, pantheist, polytheist, pagan, or assume no label at all."

http://en.wikipedia....an_Universalism

That is all true. And their one size fits all bland ritual reflects the above facts.

However the UU folks are nice reasonable folks and you may be sure they will never boycott the funerals of people who actually held a definite idea.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Haha, that'd be too much work. Anyways, when I said I'd look into it, I meant just for shits and giggles.

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Attending a Unitarian Service is like sanctifying the drying of paint.

From what it says in the Wikipedia article about UU, the association I have goes more toward 'hodge pogde' ... :smile::

"Contemporary Unitarian Universalism espouses a pluralist approach to religious belief, whereby members may describe themselves as atheist, agnostic, deist, monotheist, pantheist, polytheist, pagan, or assume no label at all."

http://en.wikipedia....an_Universalism

That is all true. And their one size fits all bland ritual reflects the above facts.

However the UU folks are nice reasonable folks and you may be sure they will never boycott the funerals of people who actually held a definite idea.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I'm sure they are nice folks because they are obviously tolerant of others' worldviews, but I'm just (in vain) trying to imagine any 'common spiritual growth denominator' which for example both a polytheist and an atheist could agree on ... :smile:

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Attending a Unitarian Service is like sanctifying the drying of paint.

From what it says in the Wikipedia article about UU, the association I have goes more toward 'hodge pogde' ... :smile::

"Contemporary Unitarian Universalism espouses a pluralist approach to religious belief, whereby members may describe themselves as atheist, agnostic, deist, monotheist, pantheist, polytheist, pagan, or assume no label at all."

http://en.wikipedia....an_Universalism

That is all true. And their one size fits all bland ritual reflects the above facts.

However the UU folks are nice reasonable folks and you may be sure they will never boycott the funerals of people who actually held a definite idea.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I'm sure they are nice folks because they are obviously tolerant of others' worldviews, but I'm just (in vain) trying to imagine any 'common spiritual growth denominator' which for example both a polytheist and an atheist could agree on ... :smile:

Introspection, empathy and rights' protection.

--Brant

this is too easy

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I'm sure they are nice folks because they are obviously tolerant of others' worldviews, but I'm just (in vain) trying to imagine any 'common spiritual growth denominator' which for example both a polytheist and an atheist could agree on ... :smile:

Introspection, empathy and rights' protection.

--Brant

this is too easy

But for that one doesn't need any "religion" (Occam's Razor flashing its blade again ... :smile:)

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I'm sure they are nice folks because they are obviously tolerant of others' worldviews, but I'm just (in vain) trying to imagine any 'common spiritual growth denominator' which for example both a polytheist and an atheist could agree on ... :smile:

Introspection, empathy and rights' protection.

--Brant

this is too easy

But for that one doesn't need any "religion" (Occam's Razor flashing its blade again ... :smile:)

We are talking about people so it doesn't matter. So the religious guy and the irreligious gal can still get it on.

--Brant

don't need no a-the-ism either--no ism at all!

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don't need no a-the-ism either--no ism at all!

But what about individualism? :wink:

We are talking about people so it doesn't matter. So the religious guy and the irreligious gal can still get it on.

Can't refute that statement, lol. Hormones are certainly powerful enough to 'override' divergent worldviews (at least for a short time), no doubt about that. :D

I just went over to the UU website - while they seem to welcome all kinds of religious beliefs, I can't see any atheist explicitly invited there, so the Wikipedia article may have got it wrong.

Maybe the UUs have nothing against beliefs that don't contain the idea of a personal god (Buddhism is often called an 'atheist' religion/philosophy), but imo they don't have prounouced through-going atheists (like e. g. George H. Smith) in mind who might start discussions that question the premises of all those beliefs ....

And what atheists would go there anyway?

I just scrolled upthread - Rich Engle (who I think is a UU member) too speaks of "lots of atheists here" - hmm, it would interest me whether they have fervent debates with theists or whether they go there primarily for 'socializing' ...

[replying to Aristocrates]:

Or take your parents to a Unitarian Universalist church. They should find that thought-provoking. And maybe even horrifying, but for the wrong reasons. You'd like it--it is fun. They have lots of atheists there, and everything. Rand readers. And if you go to one with a not-too-old congregation, very hot pagan chicks. Even if not, usually a very fine collection of intellectual, well-maintained cougars.

I've just expanded my English vocabulary by looking up what "cougar" means in the above context. :)

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Aristocrates,

Are you currently in a position where you can avoid going to church?

Yes, I can avoid it but I'm living at home while pursuing a degree. The parents prefer that I go. Going to church has benefits. I don't miss opportunities for dining out . The parents have an overall better disposition toward me. I get to share the wild statements I hear with everyone on OL. It's an opportunity to socialize (i.e. have awkward conversations with people who are effectively strangers and could really care less).

The social aspect of belonging to a church is an important factor which tends to be disregarded in purely philosophical discussions about religion.

Thinking back, I remained a member of my church long after I had begun doubting the truth of what it says in the Bible.

I found most church parish people to be nice, considerate, and caring; our church had a well-stocked, cozy library with a hepful and friendly staff; I enjoyed helping at church sales "for a good cause"; our little daughter attended children's sevice and liked it there - it was overall quite a familiar thing, and familarity is appealing to us humans as group beings.

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